IMPBA’s new P-limited “spec” class rule proposal.

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  • LuckyDuc
    Team Ducati Racing
    • Dec 2008
    • 989

    #1

    IMPBA’s new P-limited “spec” class rule proposal.

    According to a post in International Waters by Doug Smock, a new IMPBA rule proposal is in the works to limit the allowable ESCs for the P-limited “spec” classes.

    Personally, I feel that limiting ESCs in the P-limited class at a local club level is fine. Making everyone adhere to it at a national level is an entirely different thing, especially since the majority of the P-limited racers have been running this class for years with a wide variety of ESCs (some that are more affordable, and some that are more expensive than the ESCs that are being proposed)

    Many of us that have helped grow this class and make it successful are the ones who are going to pay if a rule proposal like the one mentioned passes. Any proposal that requires a large majority of racers in an existing class to replace perfectly good equipment that they paid for with hard earned cash does not help the class.

    I have 4 P-limited race boats that I have been racing for the last 3 years. I like to support US manufacturers whenever I can, as such I like to use Castle Creations ESCs. Having that choice is important to me.

    If I have to buy new ESCs for each boat that I race in the P-limited class that hurts me and many others. I don’t have money to waste these days as I have been tightening my belt. It sounds like this proposal intends to exclude all but 2 manufacturers of marine ESCs in a class that has been in existence for quite some time now. A class that is the largest FE class nationally. This rule proposal would have a large impact on many.

    As a NAMBA and IMPBA member, who has been racing this class for 3 years, and who has grown it in my own district, Dist 4, how does this help me, my club, or IMPBA? Requiring the majority of us that have been supporting this class to spend yet more money to suit the desires of the minority is not a good notion and an expensive one. Any yes, the clubs that limit ESCs for the P-limited class are in the MINORITY.

    The motor is the fuse that limits power output in the P-limited classes, not the ESC. You can only put so many watts through the allowable “spec” motors before they fry.
  • Steven Vaccaro
    Administrator
    • Apr 2007
    • 8723

    #2
    Originally posted by LuckyDuc

    The motor is the fuse that limits power output in the P-limited classes, not the ESC. You can only put so many watts through the allowable “spec” motors before they fry.

    thats the problem, there are guys willing to burn up a motor every heat or two.
    Steven Vaccaro

    Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

    Comment

    • LuckyDuc
      Team Ducati Racing
      • Dec 2008
      • 989

      #3
      Originally posted by Steven Vaccaro
      thats the problem, there are guys willing to burn up a motor every heat or two.
      I haven't seen this, but let them. Those are not the guys that are winning races anyway.

      The real problem is that all of us that are currently racing in this class with our ESCs of choice will have to buy new ESCs for each of our P-limited boats if we want to keep racing the class in our IMPBA clubs.

      Comment

      • Doug Smock
        Moderator
        • Apr 2007
        • 5272

        #4
        Originally posted by LuckyDuc

        The motor is the fuse that limits power output in the P-limited classes, not the ESC. You can only put so many watts through the allowable “spec” motors before they fry.
        EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!
        If done properly these classes don't require fuses. We have three years of testing that proves it.
        Personally, if I have to go to a race with a box of $60.00 fuses I'll find something else to do with my time. I prefer to keep my money in my wallet and few extra $$ for a limited control isn't going to me from racing.
        We are racing Sport Hydro, Hydro and O/B Tunnel and haven't has a single failure of a motor or ESC.
        They are 45 to 60 amp motors,"smoke em if ya got em"

        BTW I have done my fair share of promoting the limited classes in D13 and they continue to grow EVERY year. IMO this wouldn't happen if the motor smoke is rolling out of the antenna tubes.
        That's all I've got for this one fellas, have fun.
        Doug
        MODEL BOAT RACER
        IMPBA President
        District 13 Director 2011- present
        IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
        IMPBA 19887L CD
        NAMBA 1169

        Comment

        • Doug Smock
          Moderator
          • Apr 2007
          • 5272

          #5
          Originally posted by LuckyDuc
          I haven't seen this, but let them. Those are not the guys that are winning races anyway.

          The real problem is that all of us that are currently racing in this class with our ESCs of choice will have to buy new ESCs for each of our P-limited boats if we want to keep racing the class in our IMPBA clubs.
          NO SIR.
          At a club level you can contunue to do what you are currently doing.

          Doug
          MODEL BOAT RACER
          IMPBA President
          District 13 Director 2011- present
          IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
          IMPBA 19887L CD
          NAMBA 1169

          Comment

          • DPeterson
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2007
            • 842

            #6
            Steve
            HTML Code:
            thats the problem, there are guys willing to burn up a motor every heat or two.
            D.Smock
            HTML Code:
            They are 45 to 60 amp motors,"smoke em if ya got em"
            Curious - I have been to alot of races since we started the P-Limited racing. I simply have not seen this. Is this for real or this an assumption? I have seen plenty of blown caps and aquacraft esc's go bad. Mainly due to wet running or over-propping.

            With a quality esc you may run wet or overprop and you may reduce the life time of the motor but I don't believe you will burn one. If anybody would know it would be me. I like to see where the limits are and have the means to try.

            If you really want to protect the motor - spec the prop.

            These P-Limited classes has taken over for the 700 motor classes. We didn't spec the esc for these. What is different?

            Doug
            Doug Peterson
            IMPBA 19993
            www.badgerboaters.com

            Comment

            • Steven Vaccaro
              Administrator
              • Apr 2007
              • 8723

              #7
              I haven't personally witnessed it in the p class. But have definitely seen it in n1 mono.

              As for P, my experience is this, I keep selling the same motors to racers. Some of them at 2, 3 or 4 at a time. I dont think they have that many boats. :-). There is a racer that bought about 20 ul1 motors last year. NAMES WILL NOT be given.

              Its easy, they push them as hard as they possibly can. The magnets will not take the extreme abuse. Is this right or wrong? Its not up to me to say. But IMO I believe they do have an advantage.
              Steven Vaccaro

              Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

              Comment

              • DPeterson
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2007
                • 842

                #8
                Interesting Steve

                I run all YGE 120's with adjustable timing. I can time 7,15, 22.5 and 30. The UL1 motor I believe is built to run I believe somewhere between 10 and 15 degree timing for optimum efficiency. Correct me if I am wrong.

                I have a lot of P-Limited boats. All my esc's are set for 15 degrees. I tried all the various timings. I did not see any more speed. Everytime I timed up, I got heat.

                The only motors I have seen taken out have been due to running the boat really wet or over propping. And usually it was the stock esc that gave out first. It would be easy for me to understand the concerns if I had been witness to what is being assumed.

                I have had UL1 motors throw magnets and others becoming out of balance. I purchase a lot of them due to this.

                Doug
                Last edited by DPeterson; 02-21-2011, 07:41 PM.
                Doug Peterson
                IMPBA 19993
                www.badgerboaters.com

                Comment

                • bigwaveohs
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 535

                  #9
                  Without an ESC spec you will NEVER have a level playing field...just depends on the intent of the "P-limited" classes.
                  I let the dogs out...

                  Comment

                  • Diegoboy
                    Administrator
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 7244

                    #10
                    I didn't know an ESC would give you a noticable speed advantage.

                    I hated to sell my "cheaper" Turnigy 120A esc's to but the more expensive UL-1 esc's with cap banks!
                    "A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough."
                    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Bruce Lee. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

                    Comment

                    • Fluid
                      Fast and Furious
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 8011

                      #11
                      Why is this such a huge problem today, when we faced an identical problem 4-6 years ago in LSH? And the same thing 13 years ago in N-1? The only difference then was the use of brushed motors. Guys were burning up 700s and 05s right and left, and no solution was found.
                      I guess newer boaters must believe that the first time they notice a problem, it must be unique to them.

                      It really boils down to what you want the "fuse" to be. Limit the ESC to stock 60 amps and racers will be burning them up and buying new ones right and left. Don't limit the ESC and some guys will be purchasing motors by the car load. These are foolish "solutions" anyway because they have nothing to do with the problem. Racers will be racers and will always want an "edge", even if the advantage is not real.

                      The only "true and fair solution" - according to some - is to limit the amount of energy the boat carries, by limiting the battery. Then all boaters will have to limit amp draw in order to finish a race. Wonderful! Except that in the real world racers will try to squeeze out every last amp, destroying LiPos right and left in the process - and maybe burning down a boat or two.
                      This isn't NiMH chemistry, LiPo cells are much more fragile.


                      .
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                      Comment

                      • egneg
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 4670

                        #12
                        I have never lost a motor but have smoked a few ESC's. IMO the ESC is the fuse - not the motor. I think it boils down to the nitro folks wanting to keep the advantage in mixed races.
                        IMPBA 20481S D-12

                        Comment

                        • DPeterson
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 842

                          #13
                          And once again Fluid is dead on!

                          Doug
                          Doug Peterson
                          IMPBA 19993
                          www.badgerboaters.com

                          Comment

                          • Rumdog
                            Fast Electric Addict!
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 6453

                            #14
                            Who needs more rules? And who wants to over pay for a AQ or Proboat esc? It's a race boat, right?

                            Comment

                            • Flying Scotsman
                              Fast Electric Adict!
                              • Jun 2007
                              • 5190

                              #15
                              I do not race, I am a sport boater, but these silly rules have to be dismissed....you can run any ESC or prop...but the motor and batteries are the problem area, that is racing and I love it and yes people will cheat, but can they race to a podium finish. The best drivers will normally win under all water conditions.

                              Douggie

                              Comment

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