P-Spec Motors

[D. Newland]

The 12L was tested as a heads-up comparison to a UL-1 motor. Same rigger, same prop. The 12L was hands down faster, pulled somewhere near 1300 watts, but got to 170 degrees.

I was looking for a drop-in replacement to the UL-1. The 12L isn't it, but I bet the 13L or maybe the 14L would be a good substitute. I stopped my testing, but still have a 13L on the shelf.

There are three things I keep going back to when SPEC discussions come up.

1) I feel it's important to keep motor parity w/the RTR market (at least with LSH/LSO...maybe we can branch out a bit w/OPC and riggers?? I'm still chewing on this one).

2) FE will continue to see new motors and new RTR's (with new motors) hit the market.

3) The top guys will continue to be the top guys, no matter what is allowed to run.


I don't know what the answer is, but I do have my compromise hat on FWIW.

[Darin Jordan]

I think people have lost track of WHY this power level was created in the first place. We did this in RESPONSE to the great RTR boats that were coming available... Without much interest in N1, we needed a place where a guy could take a boat off the shelf and come race.

However, we didn't want it to become a "spec hull" class too, so we put together a power spec that would do two things. 1) Give the RTR owner a good place to compete, and 2) provide a cheap power system that could be used in any other hull to compete alongside them.

I think we've accomplished both.

If we deviate from this formula, then we lose the place for the RTR boats to run, and let's face it, they NEED to have a competitive place to run, or we lose a viable source of new drivers. For OUR club, the RTR market has provided MANY new faces, and they quickly get hooked. That would NOT happen if they were having to chase new motors every month, or had to totally change their equipment to be competitive.

In my opinion, if we just wanted a cheaper version of P-classes, we could have done like the Colorado club did with N2... spec motors that are basically L-series motors and under a certain cost. But THAT wasn't what we were trying to do.

The REASON why P-Spec OPC exists is BECAUSE of this P-Spec Idea... the REASON why people are racing to get their JAE .21 FE boat plans or kit is BECAUSE of the existing P-Spec Idea... LSO and LSH are viable BECAUSE of the existing P-Spec rules...

I don't see that changing... UNLESS we kill it by overcomplicating things and by making people chase motors and spend money they otherwise don't have. Then, just like with the standard NAMBA classes, participation becomes frustrating and expensive and falls off the map...

If we can figure out a couple more equivalent motors, that would be a good compromise, in my opinion. Anything more than that, and we'll kill the spirit of the class, make the RTRs non-competitive, and participation will fall off.

Just Sayin'....

[Doug Smock]

David, Darin, Thanks!

[RandyatBBY]

I think people have lost track of WHY this power level was created in the first place. We did this in RESPONSE to the great RTR boats that were coming available... Without much interest in N1, we needed a place where a guy could take a boat off the shelf and come race.

However, we didn't want it to become a "spec hull" class too, so we put together a power spec that would do two things. 1) Give the RTR owner a good place to compete, and 2) provide a cheap power system that could be used in any other hull to compete alongside them.

I think we've accomplished both.

If we deviate from this formula, then we lose the place for the RTR boats to run, and let's face it, they NEED to have a competitive place to run, or we lose a viable source of new drivers. For OUR club, the RTR market has provided MANY new faces, and they quickly get hooked. That would NOT happen if they were having to chase new motors every month, or had to totally change their equipment to be competitive.

In my opinion, if we just wanted a cheaper version of P-classes, we could have done like the Colorado club did with N2... spec motors that are basically L-series motors and under a certain cost. But THAT wasn't what we were trying to do.

The REASON why P-Spec OPC exists is BECAUSE of this P-Spec Idea... the REASON why people are racing to get their JAE .21 FE boat plans or kit is BECAUSE of the existing P-Spec Idea... LSO and LSH are viable BECAUSE of the existing P-Spec rules...

I don't see that changing... UNLESS we kill it by overcomplicating things and by making people chase motors and spend money they otherwise don't have. Then, just like with the standard NAMBA classes, participation becomes frustrating and expensive and falls off the map...

If we can figure out a couple more equivalent motors, that would be a good compromise, in my opinion. Anything more than that, and we'll kill the spirit of the class, make the RTRs non-competitive, and participation will fall off.

Just Sayin'....

LOL! Thanks for giving a little back ground to the P Spec racing that we created for the 2008 Nats. It was so much fun that it was continued this year. i do really love the class and I know it will grow.

[Greg Schweers]

The only thing I'm really upset about is that this issue was discussed on a national forum instead of being handled by phone or e-main because this was only a club matter. Even though 20+ club members voted in favor of this, we did not know the specs of the motor. We were convinced that the motor (being 2 pole) would not have enough torque to compete, the motor was in the right kv range. With that being said, I am going to test the Ammo and the Scorpion and recieve only 1/2 points for running them.

[RandyatBBY]

The only thing I'm really upset about is that this issue was discussed on a national forum instead of being handled by phone or e-main because this was only a club matter. Even though 20+ club members voted in favor of this, we did not know the specs of the motor. We were convinced that the motor (being 2 pole) would not have enough torque to compete, the motor was in the right kv range. With that being said, I am going to test the Ammo and the Scorpion and recieve only 1/2 points for running them.

It seams to me that if the vote was done in the club that is what you guys should do. That is the point of the NAMBA rules. To have clubs run it first and then after a year of running if it is well liked it is passed on the the National membership to be voted on. After the vote by national voteing if passes it becomes a national rule.

I hope that makes sence.

Good to see you hear Greg, Please come to the boards more.

[Darin Jordan]

The only thing I'm really upset about is that this issue was discussed on a national forum instead of being handled by phone or e-main because this was only a club matter. Even though 20+ club members voted in favor of this, we did not know the specs of the motor. We were convinced that the motor (being 2 pole) would not have enough torque to compete, the motor was in the right kv range. With that being said, I am going to test the Ammo and the Scorpion and recieve only 1/2 points for running them.

OK, well I'll plead guilty to that. Sorry... I should have thought about it a little more before posting... but the truth is that NONE of us went about this the right way.... The club matter was handled, as far as I'm concerned, via phone calls and e-mails... very shortly after the meeting ended and we actually got to LOOK at the specs for this motor. Having had all the actual specs in front of everyone, I wonder how they'd have voted? I know that I didn't know what the specs were and though it was the lighter weight motor he was using...

Again, sorry I didn't think before I typed, but this DOES affect the rest of the clubs... so here it is.

The club was squarly against the Scorpion, so, if we are going to follow our own rules, you can't even run that on a trial basis... but if you feel that the vote should stand for the AMMO, then go for it. I won't stand in your way...

But... if it's clearly faster than the others, then the club doesn't have an obligation to approve it ultimately to be allowed on the list of approved motors.

The fact is that if everyone starts doing this, then the P-Spec idea is dead, and we might as well just go back to normal P-classes.... Same people will win... it'll just cost more to do it...

[teach]

I liked what we did in Colorado when I first started. N-2 hulls with the "spec" systems, speed controls included. Cheapish, fast, and very equal in performance. It worked.

[Darin Jordan]

We had that... Not sure anymore.

My entire point to this thread is to gather enough information so we don't have to get into these pissing matches to consider motors again... If we can put together a reasonable set of guidelines, then this crap won't become a question in the future... it'll either fit, be close to fitting, or won't... Those that fit or are very close, can be tested, and ultimately approved or disapproved. I'm talking about on our Club level... What the rest of the country does can be up to them...

Sorry if this generated so many bad feelings... certainly not my intent...

[raptor347]

Since clubs are all going different directions and these aren't official classes anyway, we aren't going to run them at nationals next summer right?

[teach]

Since clubs are all going different directions and these aren't official classes anyway, we aren't going to run them at nationals next summer right?

We actually are just going to use the rules they used in the nats this year.

Sorry if this generated so many bad feelings... certainly not my intent...

Hope that wasn't at me. I actually admire the time and effort to make some ground rules.

[raptor347]

We actually are just going to use the rules they used in the nats this year.

From section 6 A of the NAMBA rule book.

3. To be classified as a Nationals a diversified selection of classes will be presented, which will adequately offer as many nationally approved classes that can be run during the event. Emphasis will be made on the classes which are popular in the area/district in which that Nationals is held.

If we are going to use the rule book, we should probably use all of it.

[teach]

From section 6 A of the NAMBA rule book.

3. To be classified as a Nationals a diversified selection of classes will be presented, which will adequately offer as many nationally approved classes that can be run during the event. Emphasis will be made on the classes which are popular in the area/district in which that Nationals is held.

If we are going to use the rule book, we should probably use all of it.

Even that confuses me. I just hope folks go home smiling.

[ozzie-crawl]

the main problem you will find in any spec (restricted) class is even if its original intention is to get beginners in or people on a budget
there is those with deep pockets as well, some people will load there gear and hope it will last a season were others may have 10 or more motors to last a season so they will push the gear to the max not careing if they have to change a motor every race meet
the only way to avoid this unfortunatly is to spec every thing
hull/hardeware motor/esc battrys/prop
gets kinda boring then

[bigwaveohs]

We had that... Not sure anymore.

My entire point to this thread is to gather enough information so we don't have to get into these pissing matches to consider motors again... If we can put together a reasonable set of guidelines, then this crap won't become a question in the future... it'll either fit, be close to fitting, or won't... Those that fit or are very close, can be tested, and ultimately approved or disapproved. I'm talking about on our Club level... What the rest of the country does can be up to them...

Sorry if this generated so many bad feelings... certainly not my intent...

Darin,
You are on the right track...don't give up! If you limit the class to a few motors, the best will prevail and everyone will be running one or two motors tops.