P-Spec Motors

[Ub Hauled]

WHAT AM I MISSING

Thanks ! That was the point I was trying to present.

the more headroom the motors have larger the high efficiency curve will be... the Ammo has a surge of 90amps, UL1 80amps, the others are a mystery, but I am sure they are either 80 or less amps... with a higher max amp rating, since they are running any ESC, there is a higher amp constant possibility while running w/o any melting, for example, if you had a motor that was 50amps constant and 60amps bursts, it would not be very efficient out of it's constant rating. If you had motor that had 50-100 amps rating then you could push it harder out of the constant rate... does it make any sense or am I rambling?

[Darin Jordan]

I think the only real way to get an accurate evaulation would be to dyno each motor being considered.

Devise a base load to put them each under, and evaluate the results based on that data.


I've already done that for the 4 subject motors for P-Spec... That's why they are on the list and appropriate. I ran them each unloaded and loaded, using a standard 4S pack for power, and a standard SV27 ESC for control. This gave solid baseline and consistent numbers from which to evaluate from.

I think that, if anything else was to be considered, it would need to undergo the same testing. However, I do think that we need to limit the list to JUST approved motors and to a VERY few of them... Otherwise, it's just P-Class Lite, and what's the point...

The idea was to have a place where RTR boats and those just getting started could have a place to come play with the rest of us... If you start putting in motors that are above and beyond the "cheap Chinese" stuff that comes in the RTR boats, then you're blowing the class up... and again, what's the point...

[Steven Vaccaro]

I think the only real way to get an accurate evaulation would be to dyno each motor being considered.

Devise a base load to put them each under, and evaluate the results based on that data.


I've already done that for the 4 subject motors for P-Spec... That's why they are on the list and appropriate. I ran them each unloaded and loaded, using a standard 4S pack for power, and a standard SV27 ESC for control. This gave solid baseline and consistent numbers from which to evaluate from.

I think that, if anything else was to be considered, it would need to undergo the same testing. However, I do think that we need to limit the list to JUST approved motors and to a VERY few of them... Otherwise, it's just P-Class Lite, and what's the point...

The idea was to have a place where RTR boats and those just getting started could have a place to come play with the rest of us... If you start putting in motors that are above and beyond the "cheap Chinese" stuff that comes in the RTR boats, then you're blowing the class up... and again, what's the point...

Please don't take this the wrong way, because i do applaud your testing and desire to keep things right. But if you truly want a spec class. A single spec motor should be considered. Otherwise you run into differences in power. For instance, look at Tony's testing of the Scorpion motor. With one esc it ran just ok, with another it came alive. There really isn't time in the world to test each setup and setting to make sure they are all the same.

[Hydromaniac]

Personally If we are forced to be using RTR equipment as spec I think the esc should be included but thats a whole new can of worms.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Personally If we are forced to be using RTR equip as spec I think the esc should be included but thats a whole new can of worms.

I would agree, but I dont race with them. The esc is the fuse, run to large of a prop and pop goes the fuse. Keeps things equal.

[Ub Hauled]

I am sure they are running 120+ ESCs, I cannot see them running the spec RTR Speedos since there's no regulation on them... I run the original 60amp speedo on my "spec boat" with the UL motor. I've clocked her at 51.1mph and there was not excessive heat on the ESC, the motor was a bit hot, but expected in racing conditions.

[Greg Schweers]

Darin, you always bragged about how our club is a Black Sheep Club because we're always trying something different (which is a good thing). Your acting like this is going to be voted on by NAMBA in the next few weeks. I know you want nothing but motors that come out of RTR boats; which is good for the SV class, and if you had strictly a UL class, that would be fine. But our LSH class has 4 or 5 different makes of boats (including tunnel and spec rigger). Even if the Ammo is 5 mph faster, Darin if you do your job at driving, that boat will not go around you. As you've always said, "Setup is key." And, if this motor turns out to be ridiculously fast, you and I would have had a heck of a race, and all we have to do is vote it out. By the way, I own 3 UL motors and 2 BlackJacks.

[Darin Jordan]

I know you want nothing but motors that come out of RTR boats; which is good for the SV class, and if you had strictly a UL class, that would be fine.

I've never said any such thing, or even indicated it... The HiMax motor is there because I wanted it to be, so I clearly don't have an aversion to aftermarket suppliers... It's also CLEARLY in line with the others, and it's specs and performance bear that out... I have said I believe it should be EQUIVALENT motors... JUST like the 700s were, for the most part... The AMMO and the Scorpion are CLEARLY more than this... based on their specs.

My goal here isn't to EXCLUDE... it's to find a formula or some guidelines to INCLUDE... All I've done is state the data and specs...

Even if the Ammo is 5 mph faster, Darin if you do your job at driving, that boat will not go around you. As you've always said, "Setup is key." And, if this motor turns out to be ridiculously fast, you and I would have had a heck of a race, and all we have to do is vote it out. By the way, I own 3 UL motors and 2 BlackJacks.

I'm not sure how you being 5mph is going to make me think we've had a "heck of a race"... I wouldn't even be on the same lap at the end of 1-mile... A heck of a race is what we have when the motors are more evenly matched...

The current rules for our club include the following line, as I posted above...

Other motors that meet similar specifications to the motors on the Approved Motor list may be considered at the discretion of the Club. These motors shall be run initially on a trial basis for ½ points until the Club decides to approve and add them to the list, or to reject them.

I'm against the two motors in question currently, because it's obvious that they are clearly higher power than the other 4, but if you feel you have to run them, then go for it... make the investment, run them for 1/2 points, and let the club decide. I'd be happy to give them a dyno run here on my bench as well, if you'll supply the motors....

My goal here is to try to come up with a way to more accurately evaluate them without getting into these pissing matches. More information gathered into one place will help that.

[RandyatBBY]

Please don't take this the wrong way, because i do applaud your testing and desire to keep things right. But if you truly want a spec class. A single spec motor should be considered. Otherwise you run into differences in power. For instance, look at Tony's testing of the Scorpion motor. With one esc it ran just ok, with another it came alive. There really isn't time in the world to test each setup and setting to make sure they are all the same.

The problem with this is that when the manufacture runs out of the one motor in the middle of summer we as racers are screwed. We need several motors that put out the same power as close to each other as possible in similar price ranges.

I have 4 of the UL-1 motors two of the SV27 motors and one of the BJ motors. I have several ESC that run my boats. I would hope that I would not have to buy a whole new set for 2010 due to a new motor being on the list that is more powerfull. Although when the nats come up I allways replenish stock for my racing to be ready.

[Doug Smock]

CHICKEN!!

Not really, but I have been enjoying the peace and quiet. LOL
Thanks Darin,

Doug

PS. Any idea what the specs are on a Feigao 540 12 or 13 L? I Haven't been able to find a chart that I can read.

[Darin Jordan]

There really isn't time in the world to test each setup and setting to make sure they are all the same.

Steven, I don't think you have to... I don't think you have to test EVERY setting... If we have 1) A set of guidelines on the basic motor parameters, and then, if there are questions, 2) a baseline test under controller conditions... I don't think that's that big of a deal. The first test should weed out 90% of the motors out there, if it's formulated correctly. The second test is a little more involved, but as I've shown before, if a moron like me can make it happen, then it can't be that difficult... It's not like we should be considering many, many motors here.

[Darin Jordan]

Not really, but I have been enjoying the peace and quiet. LOL
Thanks Darin,

Doug

I know... just razzin' ya... stay out if you can!!

PS. Any idea what the specs are on a Feigao 540 12 or 13 L? I Haven't been able to find a chart that I can read.

I don't... I know that Newland was testing these just for this type of consideration. I'm still looking for actual specs, however.

[Greg Schweers]

If the UL motor were rated at 1100 watts, would we be running this motor today? Of course we would. If ProBoat brings out an RTR sport boat, and the motor puts out 1100 watts, are you going to tell the racer to go home - because as a club, we don't run P-Sport class right now? The only reason I'm making a big deal out of this is because there will be more motor shortages - that's a fact! The part I don't understand is why do you want to pay more for something and get less? I like having motor choices, while some people don't have those choices.

[Ub Hauled]

I don't... I know that Newland was testing these just for this type of consideration. I'm still looking for actual specs, however.

12 and 13L you say?

12L = 51amps and 2159Kv (55 x 14.8 = 814w)
13L = 47amps and 1999Kv (51 x 14.8 = 754.8w)

I could tell you more details about an 8L since I have it, but the 12 and 13 turns I don't own... let me know if the 8L become relevant and I'll get the numbers.

[Doug Smock]

It took some work but here it is.