Canada Postal Strike

[GP73]

Canada post shuts down urban operations nationwide:

http://clients.infopost.ca/en/

What a mess...

I have at least 4 packages inbound.

[Stinger9D9]

Well now we know who's really behind the strike. First they tried the 3 day a week delivery to try and force the union into a full scale strike. When that didn't work, they finally forced them all out.

I'd bet it's because after watching the government step in and force striking Air Canada employees back to work after being on strike for less than one day, they want the government to do the same for them.

I don't know how that "back to work" legislation works - I think they bring in an arbitrator and both sides are forced to accept the outcome, but someone has to get this fixed.

I got two things inbound and have been holding off on making an order to OSE because of this.

Get both sides of this strike to the table and get this fixed!

[wparsons]

The back to work legislation usually entails the government declaring it an essential service which means they can't strike, and if they do they can all be let go and replaced. Not sure if that is what they would do this time, but it's what they did with the TTC (Toronto Transit).

IMO, unions have no place in modern times. People have more than enough civil rights protection without them now, and all it does is increase operational costs everywhere.

[ray schrauwen]

Well now we know who's really behind the strike. First they tried the 3 day a week delivery to try and force the union into a full scale strike. When that didn't work, they finally forced them all out.

I'd bet it's because after watching the government step in and force striking Air Canada employees back to work after being on strike for less than one day, they want the government to do the same for them.

I don't know how that "back to work" legislation works - I think they bring in an arbitrator and both sides are forced to accept the outcome, but someone has to get this fixed.

I got two things inbound and have been holding off on making an order to OSE because of this.

Get both sides of this strike to the table and get this fixed!

Aaaaaahhh, lockout is not a strike.

Canada POst Corporation is bs'ing you with its press releases.

This really bites now.

CPC is a ruthless Corp. that could care less if you get your mail or not.

They lie about declining volumes of lettermail etc...

Bogus. Call your MP or Lisa Raitt for that matter. Maybe they can pass on the frustration.

[ray schrauwen]

The back to work legislation usually entails the government declaring it an essential service which means they can't strike, and if they do they can all be let go and replaced. Not sure if that is what they would do this time, but it's what they did with the TTC (Toronto Transit).

IMO, unions have no place in modern times. People have more than enough civil rights protection without them now, and all it does is increase operational costs everywhere.

I've worked for both and I'd rather work under Union. At least you have some control over being the companies 'piece of meat'. I've been screwed over allot in non-unionized positions and unless I found a free lawyer to sue for my rights, I'm up a creek without a paddle.

I too have packages in transit but, I support my Posty guy.

[ray schrauwen]

Latest from cupw

For Immediate Release

OTTAWA – The national president of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers responded to a nation-wide lockout today by calling on the recently hired CEO of Canada Post, Deepak Chopra, to change his negotiators’ tune.

“We want to arrange an immediate meeting with Deepak Chopra,” said Denis Lemelin, National President of CUPW at a press conference today.

“At this meeting, we will request three things:

1. We want Mr. Chopra to make a public commitment that CPC will permit our members to deliver social assistance cheques. This was an initiative of the union.

2. We want Mr. Chopra to agree to reinstate our contract and we will return to work and keep negotiating. We have already made this offer.

3. We want Mr. Chopra to provide CPC's negotiators with a new mandate. Until now their only mandate has been to say 'No' to our proposals such as health and safety solutions, and make demands for major concessions on issues such as sick leave and lower wages for new workers.”

CUPW points out that Canada Post’s “No” is, by their own admission, costing them dearly. “They are claiming that our rotating strikes have cost them $100 million in 12 days,” said Lemelin. “It would cost them much less to deal with us fairly and negotiate a contract.”

[GP73]

The back to work legislation usually entails the government declaring it an essential service which means they can't strike, and if they do they can all be let go and replaced. Not sure if that is what they would do this time, but it's what they did with the TTC (Toronto Transit).

IMO, unions have no place in modern times. People have more than enough civil rights protection without them now, and all it does is increase operational costs everywhere.

Do they? Because what I'm seeing in the news all the time is corporations trying to take away those basic rights that unions worked to put in place.

How many hours of OT should you work a week? 10? 20? 40? How many should be paid? The corporation I work for doesn't pay the first 4 hours of OT because Ontario labour laws allows it, do you like to work for free?

Do you think people should have a credit check done before being considered for a job? How about drug tests? How about health tests?

How about requesting your facebook and/or email password to check your private communications? How about screening your "friends" list for potential criminals? Or maybe just for people that work for a competitor?

Should you give them a key to your house too? How about a camera in every room so they can be sure you don't do anything to damage them?

Unions are necessary to protect individuals against abuse by employers and to negotiate collective contracts, are they misused by unscrupulous people? You bet they are, like everything else in our "modern" society.

Still they are very much needed, as long as some employers will keep trying to abuse workers and vice versa.

[wparsons]

I think you're going a little too far with that one...

Let's take another look at this... I could make almost as much as I currently make as a software developer if I were to be a garbage man in Toronto. 100% un-skilled laborers are making pretty big wages simply because of unions. How about the AWU as well, over $30/hour just to do something simple like testing that a car stereo turns on? That's the whole reason the domestic auto makers were in financial trouble. Look at the TTC as well, most transit operators make $30/hour +, with no need for post secondary education, etc.

IMO, people have far too much of a sense of entitlement to be paid big wages for nothing. Not saying that's the case with you at all, just an observation in general. Yes cost of living is high in Toronto, but that doesn't mean someone should be paid $60k for unskilled work just because they're part of a good union.

What about people not working in a union job but for a company that has a union? Shouldn't people answering the phones at a unionized factory be part of the union as well? Who looks out for them?

Don't like working overtime, find a job somewhere that doesn't require/ask it. I've put in 65+ hour weeks but since I'm salaried it doesn't matter. As for OT, Ontario labour laws don't say you have to work those 4 hours free, they simply state that overtime (1.5 * hourly rate) doesn't start until after 44 hours/week. If you're hourly then you're still paid for them.

I know I could make a lot more money (probably double) by being a contract developer, but job security and benefits outweigh the pay increase at this point in my life.

On the flip side for unions, I've heard FAR too many stories of people screwing up in HUGE ways and keeping their jobs with a raise. The worst was a guy that showed up at work drunk (not even on his shift) and ran over someones foot with a forklift, then through walls of the warehouse. The persons foot had to be amputated, and there was TONS of damage. The drunk guy sued after being let go, and because of the union he was given his job back with a raise, was paid retroactively for all the time off, all legal fees paid, AND paid to go to rehab.

IMO, unions (except in rare cases) only protect sub par employees. They had their place many decades ago, but now that labour laws have come a LONG way they aren't necessary anymore.

I 100% back credit checks, drug checks and health checks if they are job relevant. If you will be given a company credit card or handle money in any way you sure as hell better have good credit on your own. Any sort of public servant jobs should be screened for drug use, what drugs they choose to enforce is up to them. Health checks should be mandatory for anyone operating any sort of machinery for work.

For the privacy things, there are many labour laws to protect you from things like that already. If an employer is still asking for them its up to the employee to be a big person and say no. With how easy it is to access laws, etc online there's no excuse for needing a union rep to tell you what an employer can and can't ask for. There's also TONS of free legal advice clinics around if you search.

[crrcboatz]

I think you're going a little too far with that one...

Let's take another look at this... I could make almost as much as I currently make as a software developer if I were to be a garbage man in Toronto. 100% un-skilled laborers are making pretty big wages simply because of unions. How about the AWU as well, over $30/hour just to do something simple like testing that a car stereo turns on? That's the whole reason the domestic auto makers were in financial trouble. Look at the TTC as well, most transit operators make $30/hour +, with no need for post secondary education, etc.

IMO, people have far too much of a sense of entitlement to be paid big wages for nothing. Not saying that's the case with you at all, just an observation in general. Yes cost of living is high in Toronto, but that doesn't mean someone should be paid $60k for unskilled work just because they're part of a good union.

What about people not working in a union job but for a company that has a union? Shouldn't people answering the phones at a unionized factory be part of the union as well? Who looks out for them?

Don't like working overtime, find a job somewhere that doesn't require/ask it. I've put in 65+ hour weeks but since I'm salaried it doesn't matter. As for OT, Ontario labour laws don't say you have to work those 4 hours free, they simply state that overtime (1.5 * hourly rate) doesn't start until after 44 hours/week. If you're hourly then you're still paid for them.

I know I could make a lot more money (probably double) by being a contract developer, but job security and benefits outweigh the pay increase at this point in my life.

On the flip side for unions, I've heard FAR too many stories of people screwing up in HUGE ways and keeping their jobs with a raise. The worst was a guy that showed up at work drunk (not even on his shift) and ran over someones foot with a forklift, then through walls of the warehouse. The persons foot had to be amputated, and there was TONS of damage. The drunk guy sued after being let go, and because of the union he was given his job back with a raise, was paid retroactively for all the time off, all legal fees paid, AND paid to go to rehab.

IMO, unions (except in rare cases) only protect sub par employees. They had their place many decades ago, but now that labour laws have come a LONG way they aren't necessary anymore.

I 100% back credit checks, drug checks and health checks if they are job relevant. If you will be given a company credit card or handle money in any way you sure as hell better have good credit on your own. Any sort of public servant jobs should be screened for drug use, what drugs they choose to enforce is up to them. Health checks should be mandatory for anyone operating any sort of machinery for work.

For the privacy things, there are many labour laws to protect you from things like that already. If an employer is still asking for them its up to the employee to be a big person and say no. With how easy it is to access laws, etc online there's no excuse for needing a union rep to tell you what an employer can and can't ask for. There's also TONS of free legal advice clinics around if you search.

I am a retired school administrator, asst. superintendent, and will tell u in executive sessions when personnel r discussed I have heard school board members demand we fire a teacher, principal, custodian, etc BECAUSE QUOTE "I DONT LIKE THE SOB OR HE DIDN'T PLAY MY DAUGHTER ENOUGH ON THE SOFTBALL TEAM,ETC". Had it not been for collective bargaining and the due process rights negotiated, those people could very well have been fired. There r idiots out there that will abuse their power if left unchecked. Now I ask you what would u have done if I had called u in one morning and said" u are fired because xyz school board member doesn't like u or because u did not play his daughter enough."
Even though I was not in a union many many times over the years I had to remind people u cannot do what u want because of a position, hate, or because u r an idiot.


Oh and the 100% unskilled trash worker, I would say he is skilled enough to handle smelly, dirty, repulsive garbage every day and is good at it. Why don't u do that if you think that, I submit u would not last an hour doing it at a 60000 dollar a year pay/ day. You'd quit and go home and return to your desk. He gets that because HE WILL.

[GP73]

IMO, unions (except in rare cases) only protect sub par employees. They had their place many decades ago, but now that labour laws have come a LONG way they aren't necessary anymore.

As I already mentioned, unions are abused and will be abused as you described, there is no doubt about that. The problem is: when you remove them from the equation the system becomes unbalanced and the laws that are now in place can be easily reversed.

Just because you have certain rights now doesn't mean that the government can't take it away tomorrow if lobbied by powerful corporations.

You're focusing on the individual with the forklift and missing the thousand of people that are GOOD employees that just want to have a decent job and be protected. You don't hear about those in the news, they are boring.

I 100% back credit checks, drug checks and health checks if they are job relevant.

Exactly! I agree, but you know very well that, if left unchecked, a corporation would go way beyond that.

Life happens, you could get in debt for a illness or an accident, should you be considered ineligible for ANY type of work because of that? Bad credit doesn't necessarily make you a criminal.

The same goes for drugs: dude shows up stoned at work? By all means fire him! But if he wants to get stoned in his home after work that's only his problem, as long as he doesn't go around doing any damage I don't see why we should care.

What about discriminating fat people because they can't run as fast as athletic ones and therefore could be a fire hazard if a building needs to be evacuated?

You're right saying that I am taking it too far, because that's exactly what some employers would do if there was nobody to keep them in check.

Governments have shown several times in history how useless they can be in this regard.

For the privacy things, there are many labour laws to protect you from things like that already. If an employer is still asking for them its up to the employee to be a big person and say no. With how easy it is to access laws, etc online there's no excuse for needing a union rep to tell you what an employer can and can't ask for. There's also TONS of free legal advice clinics around if you search.

Some people cannot say no, especially if they have a family to feed, you know that. They can't afford to say "well let me take this contract to a lawyer and I'll get right back to you" because the next in line will get the job instead.

Unions are to workers what police force is to citizens, they protect people against criminals, do they abuse their power sometimes? Sure they do. Do they protect the criminals instead of innocent people sometimes? Unfortunately they do that as well.

Would you advocate getting rid of the police because few policemen abused their powers? I'm sure you wouldn't.

I just like balance and moderation in life, like our boats there is a delicate equilibrium we need to reach to grow as a society, remove one piece from the system and everything will eventually fall apart.

Give too much power to unions and the economy will stagnate, companies will be unable to be competitive and go out of business.

But remove them altogether and I guarantee you that workers will be abused in ways that you never thought possible.

Just for the record: I do NOT work for a union, have *anything* to do with unions or have any relative involved in unions. I also get criminal background checks, drugs test and credit checks every time I start a new contract. I also get paid by the hour and I don't get paid for OT.

This month I had to take 40 hours of mandatory, unpaid, vacation. They didn't even have the courtesy to explain why, just sent an email asking to choose your days in a way that didn't affect the business (ergo I cannot even take a whole week off and go on vacation).

I'm glad I'm single and have no family to feed, because for a family that just makes it to the end of the month it could mean skipping some payments and ending up with a bad credit score...

See how that works?

I think we are way off-topic for this forum though, I apologize to the moderators and I will stop replying here, maybe we can move to the off-topic section if you like.

[wparsons]

I am a retired school administrator, asst. superintendent, and will tell u in executive sessions when personnel r discussed I have heard school board members demand we fire a teacher, principal, custodian, etc BECAUSE QUOTE "I DONT LIKE THE SOB OR HE DIDN'T PLAY MY DAUGHTER ENOUGH ON THE SOFTBALL TEAM,ETC". Had it not been for collective bargaining and the due process rights negotiated, those people could very well have been fired. There r idiots out there that will abuse their power if left unchecked. Now I ask you what would u have done if I had called u in one morning and said" u are fired because xyz school board member doesn't like u or because u did not play his daughter enough."

It isn't a union that protects people in that situation, it's the ministry of labour. If someone is fired without due cause it would be taken up by the labour board very fast if the person fired brought it up.

Plus, unions do just as much damage to workers as they claim to help. I know quite a few people who are continually hired on as 6 month temporary workers, let go for a day and re-hired for another 6 months. (some have been doing it for years for the same city) They do this so they don't get benefits, aren't part of the union and can be let go without due cause because they are temporary labour (the 3 month probation period only applies to permanent employees in Ontario). Would the city do that if the union requirements for pay and benefits weren't so high, probably not. The paperwork to fire and re-hire a good chunk of their staff isn't cheap, but obviously it's cheaper than the alternatives.

Oh and the 100% unskilled trash worker, I would say he is skilled enough to handle smelly, dirty, repulsive garbage every day and is good at it. Why don't u do that if you think that, I submit u would not last an hour doing it at a 60000 dollar a year pay/ day. You'd quit and go home and return to your desk. He gets that because HE WILL.

I take out the garbage all the time at home, but I don't see that guy writing software that banks and car dealerships use at home...

Garbage man was just one example, the guy sweeping the floor on a construction site is making over $40k/year easily just to start. What qualifications does that need? If I didn't love writing software, and wouldn't go out of my mind bored I was gladly do the job of a garbage man or sweep up construction sites. I know I'd work a lot less hours and be a lot less stressed at times!

[egneg]

Problems are everywhere, not only in the postal system and not just Canada.Here in the US I work for an Italian owned company and if OSHA walked in they would shut the place down. I know this doesn't seem wage related but they only hire non-educated usually foreign nationals that will not say a thing for fear of losing their job. This is why unions still have a place and always will.

[Stinger9D9]

Well I'll stay out of the politics of the lockout for now. Instead, here is one alternate method for Canadians to get their stuff from US sellers.

Then again, it might be the only way to get stuff while avoiding courier fees.

Get your orders shipped to a place like this:

http://www.usaddressinc.com/

...and go pick it up when you go shopping in the states. They are reasonably priced and in some cases (if you were going to the states anyway) you just may save a fair amount on shipping costs.

It's also great for buying from sellers that just won't ship to anywhere but the US.

Just make sure your seller includes a good receipt (Paypal can provide them to be printed) just in case you need to stop in at customs to pay duty. Customs is pretty sticky about you bringing stuff back without a receipt to help them determine the value.

[Doby]

Unions have a place in todays society...but not to the point of telling companies how to run the buisness.

Many unions have this attitude.

Personally the ones I "like" best are teachers....they should be allowed to strike, but only during July and August.

Any other time and its not about the "children"...its about their own greed. Striking during the school year is strictly bullying. They need to remember who pays their wages....

[wparsons]

When I was in grade 11 there was a teachers strike, I got a good 3 week vacation in the first term of the year :D

Well I'll stay out of the politics of the lockout for now. Instead, here is one alternate method for Canadians to get their stuff from US sellers.

Then again, it might be the only way to get stuff while avoiding courier fees.

Get your orders shipped to a place like this:

http://www.usaddressinc.com/

...and go pick it up when you go shopping in the states. They are reasonably priced and in some cases (if you were going to the states anyway) you just may save a fair amount on shipping costs.

It's also great for buying from sellers that just won't ship to anywhere but the US.

Just make sure your seller includes a good receipt (Paypal can provide them to be printed) just in case you need to stop in at customs to pay duty. Customs is pretty sticky about you bringing stuff back without a receipt to help them determine the value.

Even without a strike, that's a great way to get stuff cheaper. For some reason shipping in Canada is much more expensive (it's usually cheaper to ship to the US than to another address in Canada), just like flights within Canada.

USPS is also offering some kind of service to Canada that guarantees delivery even if there is a strike. I don't know the details of it, but LarrysDrifter got a quote from them to send me a UL-1 that was guaranteed in a couple days regardless of what Canada Post is doing. It wasn't cheap, but it would get there!