HealthFear Only In America!

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, You are aware that they are making changes to the current bill?

You have WAY too much faith in the Government, Dom... Sorry, but I don't share your trust of these guys...

People want to blame Bush and Clinton and Obama for stuff... but let's not forget... it's the people in Congress and the Senate, many of which have been there through ALL of this, that are to blame for MOST of these events...

You can't really expect Barney Frank, Pelosi, Reid, Hatch, Rangle, or any of the rest of them, to actually do the RIGHT thing here?? THEY caused this mess... and now you think THEY are going to get us out???

Seriously???

[Flying Scotsman]

OK Douggie... I know this is a Trojan Horse question... like bait used by the rabid LEFT... but I'll bite...


HIGHER COSTS, LOWER SERVICES, RATIONED HEALTHCARE, REDUCED/NO FREEDOM OF CHOICE, GOVERNMENT CONTROL OVER WHO GETS WHAT...

That's enough right there, but the list goes on...

People thinking that ANYTHING will be run better and/or will be less expensive when run by the Government, is in deep, DEEP denial of the facts and of history and of the present and of many, many things...

A great response, yes higher costs via taxes..lower services possible...freedom of choice, as long you are insurred and that party will pay for the procedure. Government control...NO ...You are entitled to all medical procedures.

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

A great response, yes higher costs via taxes..lower services possible...freedom of choice, as long you are insurred and that party will pay for the procedure. Government control...NO ...You are entitled to all medical procedures.

Douggie

Douggie... Like I said... it's WAY too complicated to go into in one sentance... I'll summarize this by just saying... I don't agree with parts of your response... Especially the Governement control part... History is not on your side... not in this country, anyhow... Once everyone is on a Governement healthcare system (in other words, the Governement has driven out all the private firms or controls them through stiff regulations), then they will tell you who you can see, when you can see them, and what they are allowed to do...

[domwilson]

You have WAY too much faith in the Government, Dom... Sorry, but I don't share your trust of these guys...

People want to blame Bush and Clinton and Obama for stuff... but let's not forget... it's the people in Congress and the Senate, many of which have been there through ALL of this, that are to blame for MOST of these events...

You can't really expect Barney Frank, Pelosi, Reid, Hatch, Rangle, or any of the rest of them, to actually do the RIGHT thing here?? THEY caused this mess... and now you think THEY are going to get us out???

Seriously???

Actually I have very little faith in the government. But I have even lesser faith in a system that operates the way our healthcare system operates now. The industry is full of problems and is out of control. Have we forgotten the lessons learned from the financial institutions debacle?

[Flying Scotsman]

Douggie... Like I said... it's WAY too complicated to go into in one sentance... I'll summarize this by just saying... I don't agree with parts of your response... Especially the Governement control part... History is not on your side... not in this country, anyhow... Once everyone is on a Governement healthcare system (in other words, the Governement has driven out all the private firms or controls them through stiff regulations), then they will tell you who you can see, when you can see them, and what they are allowed to do...

Darin, wrong up here in the frozen north, most companies offer an insurrance package for dental, drugs, foreign travel, etc. I am only reffering to basic health coverage, and you can see a medical specialist of your choice and they will instruct the correct procedure

Douggie

[domwilson]

Douggie... Like I said... it's WAY too complicated to go into in one sentance... I'll summarize this by just saying... I don't agree with parts of your response... Especially the Governement control part... History is not on your side... not in this country, anyhow... Once everyone is on a Governement healthcare system (in other words, the Governement has driven out all the private firms or controls them through stiff regulations), then they will tell you who you can see, when you can see them, and what they are allowed to do...

Has that happened in ALL other countries with universal healthcare?

[domwilson]

For the record. I am not for HR 3200 in it's current form. I am for Healthcare reform. I entertain suggestions from both sides. Newt Gingrich has some very good ideas. But I do think that as the richest nation on earth, that we should provide healthcare coverage to all U.S. citizens. The best way to do that is to stop wasting money on politically driven earmarks and projects. Put the focus back on domestic policies. Pull out of Iraq. Accomplish the goals in Afghanistan and stop dingle doodling around.

[Flying Scotsman]

Dom, in a few sentences what does the bill propose? and why is the bill as Darin mentioned 1000 pages long...sounds pretty simple to me.

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

I am for Healthcare reform. I entertain suggestions from both sides. Newt Gingrich has some very good ideas. But I do think that as the richest nation on earth, that we should provide healthcare coverage to all U.S. citizens. The best way to do that is to stop wasting money on politically driven earmarks and projects. Put the focus back on domestic policies. Pull out of Iraq. Accomplish the goals in Afghanistan and stop dingle doodling around.

Dom,

We are on the same page, then... The biggest difference I see is that I prefer to have Governement regulated FREE MARKET solutions that allow for private companies to operate under a set of fair and balanced rules/guidelines... and I don't want the Governement owning any of it... They have other things to do...

The experiment right now with GM, and the former "exeriments" with Amtrak, the Post Office, and any number of other Governement owned/operated enterprises are proof that they can't even run an even ship...

[domwilson]

There is not strong enough wording to prevent illegal aliens from getting coverage.
There are provisions to create "panels" to advise congress in making changes on the fly to the reform.
The wording can lead to private insurers being pushed out of the market as they don't have deep enough pockets to compete with the goverment.
The bill should be broken down into separate legislative actions rather than being so broadly based.
Too complex in reading. Needs simpler, easier to understand language.

There is more. But I haven't finished reading the whole thing.

[domwilson]

Dom,

We are on the same page, then... The biggest difference I see is that I prefer to have Governement regulated FREE MARKET solutions that allow for private companies to operate under a set of fair and balanced rules/guidelines... and I don't want the Governement owning any of it... They have other things to do...

The experiment right now with GM, and the former "exeriments" with Amtrak, the Post Office, and any number of other Governement owned/operated enterprises are proof that they can't even run an even ship...

For the most part we are in agreement. I would like to see a government option but with a different set of guidelines to minimize employers from jumping ship to a government run system. Maybe the government run system will only accept individual policies and companies with a certain number employees must carry a private insurer?

I have another suggestion here.. http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ad.php?t=10242

Either way, private insurers must have a market to operate in just in case the government program is not up to the individuals expectations. So you see, there is choice.

[Darin Jordan]

So you see, there is choice.

More like "could be"... there isn't anything yet...

But none of this really addresses the actual COSTS of the healthcare... To do that, you need to get very serious about:

1) TORT reform... Liability insurance costs are rediculous
2) DRUG costs... The drug companies are in bed with the Government... and WAY too much corruption, as well as red-tape...
3) Lack of portability of Insurance
4) Lack of competition due to state-line restrictions
5) Etc....

[domwilson]

More like "could be"... there isn't anything yet...

But none of this really addresses the actual COSTS of the healthcare... To do that, you need to get very serious about:

1) TORT reform... Liability insurance costs are rediculous
2) DRUG costs... The drug companies are in bed with the Government... and WAY too much corruption, as well as red-tape...
3) Lack of portability of Insurance
4) Lack of competition due to state-line restrictions
5) Etc....

1.) On tort reform. Yes. and criminalize gross negligence in cases of loss of limb or life.
2.) Drug costs- Most Definitely. The drug companies are getting paid thru government subsidies, charities, and higher costs to Americans when the same drugs are cheaper everywhere else.
3.) Portability...if you mean insurance accepted at all institutions, yes.
4.)State line restrictions can be removed it companies abide by federally mandated regulations.
5.) Etc. Heavy penalties, fines, prison for intentional fraud. Institutions can only bill one paying entity. No more billing the insurance company, patient and government for the same claim. Transparency of costs up front. Provide estimates of service. No more "bill shock." A Healthcare provider rating service. To help consumers make a better choice in who they select for service and to help improve quality of service. Would you go to a provider that has a low rating?

[RCprince]

[rockwerks]

It just gets better and better MORONS

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/16/news/economy/baucus_health_reform/?postversion=2009091619