John pilger: Obama is a corporate marketing creation

[wirenut67]

Dom,

SO the real question here is how is a speaker enabling someone to achieve an end? By filling their mind with hate? Illegitimate ideals?

If this is the case, why have you all not fallen for this? I would suspect it would be because you have the mindful insight to decide for yourselves what is right, and wrong. EVEN IF WE DO NOT AGREE ON WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG.

Now were the speaker to buy those weak minded souls weapons, explosives etc etc, then I could agree without pause.

I still have to stand on my original belief. I stand unconvinced.

[domwilson]

Dom,

SO the real question here is how is a speaker enabling someone to achieve an end? By filling their mind with hate? Illegitimate ideals?

If this is the case, why have you all not fallen for this? I would suspect it would be because you have the mindful insight to decide for yourselves what is right, and wrong. EVEN IF WE DO NOT AGREE ON WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG.

Now were the speaker to buy those weak minded souls weapons, explosives etc etc, then I could agree without pause.

I still have to stand on my original belief. I stand unconvinced.

Well, these speakers "enable" because they encourage certain behavior. And misguide them into acting them out "as it is your right" to do so.

A majority of Americans haven't fallen for this. There are a number of "weak minded" individuals in our society who look towards these people for guidance.

We all have experienced times of weakness for various reasons and to varying decrees. I am not going to convince you of what is right and wrong. That is entirely up to you.
We all have our own values as was taught to us by our parents, society and what is governed by the law. But Hate-mongering and Hate-crimes are against the law.

[AndyKunz]

You don't know much about history. People followed Hitler because he brought them out of the great depression Germany was in. He put food back on their table and he told them they were the greatest people in the world.

All true.

He didn't use hate speech like the talk show bloviators we have do.

Yes, he did. The propaganda ministry was rather well-funded and connected. He used film and radio. There was recently (a year or two ago) a re-awareness of this when a director was in the news, I believe she died.

Hitler was a mastermind of persuasion. He controlled all the media.

America is not such a position. On the right hand you have entertainment personalities (Hannity, Rush, etc.) and on the left you have entire networks: CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc. Which is more dangerous? An individual with a message, or a corporation which provides only its viewpoint?

I lived in Germany for 5 years and became a student of their history. I had former Nazis working for me. So don't try to tell me anything about Hitler.

My mother was born there while he was in power, and grew up in an educational system run by his cronies. The only good thing was that English was a mandatory language.

Her father was drafted and died on the Russian front (he was well past a draft-able age). He was not a party member, only a citizen.

Believe me, we have no love for Hitler. He was despicable. But he had the same control over the media that most of the left has today. Hollyweird is not a bastion of conservativism, last time I looked. The balance that the conservative entertainers provide is essential to keeping the left from completely overrunning and destroying hte country.

Andy

[AndyKunz]

Homeland Security? They even wear the same black uniforms.

<satire>
Is that a racial statement? Seems like everything else is.
</satire>

Why doesn't Obama get rid of them, then? That would be a change we could believe in, rather than bankrupting the country for the next 3 generations.

Could it be the same reason he sent 4000 more troops to the Middle East shortly after taking office?

Or related to the backpeddling on Gitmo?

Perhaps he's learning.

Andy

[domwilson]

<satire>
Is that a racial statement? Seems like everything else is.
</satire>

Why doesn't Obama get rid of them, then? That would be a change we could believe in, rather than bankrupting the country for the next 3 generations.

Could it be the same reason he sent 4000 more troops to the Middle East shortly after taking office?

Or related to the backpeddling on Gitmo?

Perhaps he's learning.

Andy

I don't know how you derived a racial statement from that...Buuuuuut, Ok.
Surely you don't think that one man can do everything do you? It wasn't just one man who put them in place was it?
Have you forgotten the Bush administration stimulus bailout? Really, who did that benefit? But, let's go with blaming one man for taking on the problems another administration created.

So here is your racial statement. "Sure, blame the black guy."

[wirenut67]

the clue may have been in the satire connotations......

p.s. Andy GOOD STUFF!

[domwilson]

Yes and you can thank Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and a few others for their assistance in making it that way. But they can't tell people what to think or can they?

[wirenut67]

Yes and you can thank Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and a few others for their assistance in making it that way. But they can't tell people what to think or can they?

No they cant. They can only tell people what they (Glen, Ann, Rush) think. It is up to the individual to sift that information, agree or disagree, and then decide for themselves what to think. This is an often complex series of events that completely eludes those on the left. Most of which have difficulty sifting and deciding what to do....thus the flipping and flopping show begins.

[domwilson]

No they cant. They can only tell people what they (Glen, Ann, Rush) think. It is up to the individual to sift that information, agree or disagree, and then decide for themselves what to think. This is an often complex series of events that completely eludes those on the left. Most of which have difficulty sifting and deciding what to do....thus the flipping and flopping show begins.

Ideally yes. It is up to the individual. But in reality, for various reasons, it is often not the case. Many will follow just on blind belief. Access to resources, education, party affiliation, etc. would affect their descisions. These guys appear to be reputable to some and they hold on to their words like gospel. So I am guessing that you think this happens to the left? But I thought you said that it didn't happen to anyone. But go ahead and blame it on the "lefties" if it works for you. I'm not a "lefty" so you missed with that shot.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Here's a shocker for you:

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/19/fox-news-viewers-misinformed/

[domwilson]

No they cant. They can only tell people what they (Glen, Ann, Rush) think. It is up to the individual to sift that information, agree or disagree, and then decide for themselves what to think. This is an often complex series of events that completely eludes those on the left. Most of which have difficulty sifting and deciding what to do....thus the flipping and flopping show begins.

People can't tell people what to think? Hmmm...Religious cults? Political coups? Political Parties? Office Politics? Look around you. Why do you have a preference of one consumer product over the other? Watch these guys sometime and listen to the rheteric that they spew. Why was Michael Steele told to back down as the Republicans didn't want to offend Rush?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19517.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/02/gop.steele.limbaugh/

[wirenut67]

Dom,

It was meant to be more a tease than a taunt. There was no malice intended at all in this entertaining exchange.

In reality, and ideally it is up to the individual. Who else could be up to?

I mean if I were to go on and on about jumping from a bridge, expounding on a great oration about the merits of it.....how many of you would jump? why?

If you did jump who's fault would that be?

Think Orson Wells....LOL!

Bill heres a shocker for you...it is NOT just FOX news watchers who are misinformed.....I seriously doubt that ANY of us are fully informed, no matter how much we would proclaim to be.

[domwilson]

Dom,

It was meant to be more a tease than a taunt. There was no malice intended at all in this entertaining exchange.

In reality, and ideally it is up to the individual. Who else could be up to?

I mean if I were to go on and on about jumping from a bridge, expounding on a great oration about the merits of it.....how many of you would jump? why?

If you did jump who's fault would that be?

Think Orson Wells....LOL!

Bill heres a shocker for you...it is NOT just FOX news watchers who are misinformed.....I seriously doubt that ANY of us are fully informed, no matter how much we would proclaim to be.

I didn't take it as a taunt. You were just expressing your view. But, If you did tell a group of people how great it was to jump off the bridge. I'm sure you would get a few takers. Think about the people who were trying to hitch a ride on the comet.

[wirenut67]

Dom,

People CHOOSE to join religious cults, people CHOOSE to join Political coups, People CHOOSE to join office politics, people CHOOSE to use the products they use....These are willing acts, can you not see that?

Even the consumer chooses what to buy, based on the information he is given. Point is he is GIVEN INFORMATION then makes a CHOICE.

I have never and would never expect anyone to hold a gun to my head and force me to buy windex.

Same principal applies.

You can listen to all the hate mongering, and other BS, but in the end it is your choice what you do with it, how far you take it, and ultimately the price you pay for those decisions.

[wirenut67]

I didn't take it as a taunt. You were just expressing your view. But, If you did tell a group of people how great it was to jump off the bridge. I'm sure you would get a few takers. Think about the people who were trying to hitch a ride on the comet.

I am sure I would get a few takers lol.....might be a good way to weed out the weak minded among us....*read nut jobs*