Weigh in on motor comparision for 1:10 scale!

[Coug90]

I'm looking for some input here from some of the experienced racers out there. We have done some in-boat testing during the last year to find some comparable motor options to spec for our Div 2 class of racing in Classic Thunder. It was an incredibly nice surprise to find that the Scorpion HK 3226-1600 was across the board, and across different boats, a consistently identical performing motor to the NAMBA legal Himax 3630-1500 motor. The experiment showed competitive results under race conditions during the season too. I thought it would be a good, different option to propose adding to the inrunner options in NAMBA's 1:10 scale class officially and want to make that proposal. The HK3226-1600 looks to be the replacement for the 3026-1600 offered previously by Scorpion and then Hyperion. They all seem to be out there and have similar specs. However, our comparisons were simply done on the water, switching them between boats and comparing top speed on gps with the same hull, batteries etc. I'm hoping that some of you could help me fill in the blanks of what you would look for when comparing these motor specs on paper and report back with your opinions on how comparable you think they may or may not be. They look good so far to us in competition and are comparably priced too. It might also be a good idea to add a few more comparable motors to the list as motors are often discontinued by companies, but folks are still able to find them out there for a while even after they are and should be able to use them. The more comparable options, the better IMO. I'm sure there are others out there too.

Mitch Dillard
1:10 Scale Enthusiast
www.classicthunder.us
www.hydroscalecreations.com
email: hydroscale@gmail.com
2007 Boeing Dreamliner
1955 Gale V
1985 Squire Shop Brittania

[DPeterson]

[Coug90]

I guess no one is interested in this topic. After looking at the specs of the motors more closely, it appears that the only worry I have is the difference in rated watts for them. The outrunner is rated significantly higher, but I'm not sure how that will play out in 1:10 scale racing. I suspect that you could get more out of the outrunner with a larger prop or with a heavier boat without overheating it. However, given the speeds you can achieve with the currently legal motors, I don't know if a boat that size could handle that much more before becoming unstable. Maybe the 1400 KV version of that same outrunner motor would be a better fit?

[rayzerdesigns]

these debates will go on for days...kinda like the debate mr Peterson started..lol..im not sure you can compare outrunner to innrunneri have yet to try the himax..but the proboat 1500 and the aquacraft motors are really evenly matched..i guess it would come down to your clubs preference..until a rule change is made..i will be testing the himax this weekend to see how it compares..as for bigger props..i can turn a 50mm prop with no issues..don't know if I would want to go bigger than that

[Coug90]

Thanks for you input. Let me know what you think about the Himax in comparison with what you've been running. I think with the higher watt rating of the Scorpion, you could put more load on the motor without overheating it. I think more testing is in order with some larger props on the boats with both motors before we'll really know if we have a good fit.

[Darin Jordan]

Mitch,

In case you hadn't heard, PSFEMBC did vote to run the Scorpion motors for this next season in 1/10th.

By the way, I may be in the market for a 1/10th Modern if you know of one around. I tried to get a hold of Mark B., but haven't heard back yet... :)

[T.S.Davis]

Yeah, me too Doug.

I'm building one of these and didn't really want to use the old 1500 I found in my box of crap. I think there might be an old blue AQ1700 in there too.

[rayzerdesigns]

Mitch,

In case you hadn't heard, PSFEMBC did vote to run the Scorpion motors for this next season in 1/10th.

By the way, I may be in the market for a 1/10th Modern if you know of one around. I tried to get a hold of Mark B., but haven't heard back yet... :)

come on darin..u live in Washington..craig builds some awesome moderns..come to winter warmups..sure you will be even more intriqued..lol..and there always seems to be a few for sale

[Coug90]

Mitch,

In case you hadn't heard, PSFEMBC did vote to run the Scorpion motors for this next season in 1/10th.

By the way, I may be in the market for a 1/10th Modern if you know of one around. I tried to get a hold of Mark B., but haven't heard back yet... :)

Good to hear from you Darin. Is it the HK3226 1600 that PSFEMBC is allowing or are there more. I talked to Jim Bickford recently about my proposal idea, but I didn't know the club was voting on any 1:10 motor proposals. I talked with another member of the club and he was wondering about the motors in 1:10 and what NAMBA legal motors were being phased out by ProBoat and are no longer available by Aquacraft etc. Do you have any info on that? I think that Craig at West Coast Custom Boats is you best bet too. I can tell you that he can lay up a boat for you to finish yourself if you like or any other stage of completion you want. FYI, he has three modern molds that I built the plugs for now and they all seem to work very well. One is the Tide hull that I sold. The others are the Boeing Dreamliner hull that can make so many other boats using different cowling kits that I make and the most recent is a 1980's Lucero hull that I made my 85 Brittania Squire Shop with. Mark B. has been out of town in Arizona off and on dealing with a family emergency, so it may take him a little while to get back to you.

Mitch

[rayzerdesigns]

so the scorpion motor is a outrunner??

[Coug90]

Yes, the Scorpion HK3226-1600 has shown good performance in line with what the other NAMBA legal motors in 1:10 scale have shown and I'm thinking about drawing up a proposal to have it and the older Scorpion HK3026-1600 and Hyperion HS3026-1600 to the list of legal motors. So far, they seem fairly comparable, but I was a little worried about watts. The outrunners have a considerably higher watt rating, but I'm not sure how much that means in comparison since the design is so different. So far, we have seen them be very evenly matched in competition and limited testing against the motors that are currently legal, especially the Himax 3630-1500.

[rightturnonly]

Mitch,

Good to see this is getting some input. I think it's safe to say the majority of the 1/10th scales are in the northwest. It would be interesting to see how the comparison of motors plays out over a full season of racing.

[Coug90]

We made the Himax and the Scorpion motors legal in our division 2 in Classic Thunder this season, so we got a full year of racing with them and had good results with both. They seem to match up really well. I intend on making the proposal if I can find time to write it up for NAMBA consideration. We have a district meeting coming up in February. We will also be including the Scorpion and Hyperion 1600 motors as part of the Triple Crown Series out west in 2015. Haven't made that announcement official yet though. It's been good racing all around, but considering you never know what motors ProBoat or Aquacraft will keep offering (or any company for that matter) it seems a good idea to be proactive in adding to the list of motor options if we want to stay ahead of the game.

[rayzerdesigns]

well testing over weekend went well..i would say the himax and proboat 1500, and the aquacraft are fairly close..withe the aquacraft not liking bigger 50mm props..seems to run best on 47 and 48mm..that being said I would be open to trying the scorpion..tried a 52mm prop on sunday..really seemed to upset boat in corners..and is probably on upper end of temp scale..is the scorpion motor a outrunner??

[Coug90]

Yes, the Scorpion HK3226-1600 (current offering), HK3026-1600 and the Hyperion HS3026-1600(replaced by the 3226, but can still be found for sale.) are all outrunners that are very popular helicopter motors. I think they are very comparable to the other motors already in the class and they seem to be a good fit. It's interesting that you saw the boat get unstable and upset in the corners when the props got really big. I figure that this may help even the playing field a bit if the outrunner with their higher watt rating. I wondered if this would allow them to throw a bigger prop than the inrunners without overheating. I think the inrunners are quicker on acceleration, but may have less grunt for bigger props. However we're at a point in performance where the boats will suffer in stability once you start running the larger props on them at high speeds. The outrunner might allow a guy with a heavier or wet running boat to get more out of the boat than the inrunners will allow, but I haven't proven that. I see no great differences in their compared performance in competition so far. I would be interested to see what you think after you try one of the outrunner motors. They are slightly more expensive, but you can find them on sale out there too.

I hope you'll share your results if you try one of them. In testing them against each other in three boats, each boat ran identical max speeds with the Himax and the Scorpion motor down to 1/10 mph. We didn't get into the really big props while testing, but the results were promising enough run the season with them included with the Himax. The inrunners and outrunners make the boat "feel" different when driving them at the same speeds. I can't explain it, but the outrunners make the boat feel more "floaty" and "smooth" when accelerating. The inrunners seem to feel more "quick" and "immediate" when accelerating. Maybe the outrunner creates a gyro effect with it's spinning mass. I don't know, but you may notice it too. Hope to hear what you think soon. Thanks for your interest.

[rayzerdesigns]

im gonna order one this week..what prop are u guys running??

[Darin Jordan]

Here is a pretty basic fact... There are enough 1/10th Scale guys that are NAMBA members to pretty much get anything passed for FE if they want it passed. Aren't enough voting members in the entire country from an FE perspective, especially those that will actually take the time to vote (WHY is our country in such a mess these days??? Hmmmmm....).

If they can get the proposal up for a vote (through their District directors, etc.), it'll pretty much pass on their votes alone, unless someone mounts a Nitro/Gas "counter-offensive"...

I'm going to enjoy watching this one...

[rayzerdesigns]

lol darin..no popcorn..it seems the scale guys are on same page..and mitch..as for the hulls not being stable at much faster..i have had my 10th Budweiser bradshaw hull over 60mph with a 40x72 motor..no problems with stability..just have to run a lot of wing

[Coug90]

im gonna order one this week..what prop are u guys running??

I have been running the Himax in my division 2 boat and started out with the Octura X447R detongued and with a little cup in it. I haven't tried the cnc 48mm yet with that boat, but I have most recently run it with a cnc 3-blade 46mm and it's showing promise. I don't have much time on the boat yet, but look forward to getting more testing in. I would try the same props to start with that you were running already and go from there. I haven't tried anything much larger than that and it would likely make the ride suffer. Looking forward to hearing what you think when you've run both motors with different props etc on your boat.

[Coug90]

Here is a pretty basic fact... There are enough 1/10th Scale guys that are NAMBA members to pretty much get anything passed for FE if they want it passed. Aren't enough voting members in the entire country from an FE perspective, especially those that will actually take the time to vote (WHY is our country in such a mess these days??? Hmmmmm....).

If they can get the proposal up for a vote (through their District directors, etc.), it'll pretty much pass on their votes alone, unless someone mounts a Nitro/Gas "counter-offensive"...

I'm going to enjoy watching this one...

Darin, what is the status of the current ProBoat and Aquacraft motors that are listed for 1:10 Scale use. You hear so many rumors about whether they still produce them or not or if they've gone in another direction completely for their RTR models and won't continue offering them etc. I figure if anyone would know, you would.

[rayzerdesigns]

I just picked up 2 proboat motors..so they are still avail for a bit I guess..I ordered them from my local hobby shop

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, what is the status of the current ProBoat and Aquacraft motors that are listed for 1:10 Scale use. You hear so many rumors about whether they still produce them or not or if they've gone in another direction completely for their RTR models and won't continue offering them etc. I figure if anyone would know, you would.

Can't speak for the AquaCraft motors.

Pro Boat has discontinued the 1500 and 1800KV motors. The 1800's are out of stock. There are still 1500's in stock. Get them while you can.

[TheShaughnessy]

I was looking at AQ motors the other day and it seems the original blue can, what I call the SV27 motor is still available.


Darin any idea on when the new 2000kv motor will be in stock? Fast serve isn't showing a date.

[Darin Jordan]

Darin any idea on when the new 2000kv motor will be in stock? Fast serve isn't showing a date.

I'm sorry, I really don't know. I'll inquire and see if I can find out.

[Coug90]

Thanks for the info Darin. This is exactly why the spec classes need to continue to look for comparable options that fall into the same performance range. I was looking around yesterday and see that Leopard offers a motor that looks to fit the bill for testing in 1:10 scale. Very affordable 3650 sized motor with 800 watts and 1650 kv. Anyone ever try this motor? It might be worth looking at in the future too. The numbers look fairly comparable.

[T.S.Davis]

Mitch, something to consider. Outside of the NW where scale is a staple, when guys that don't run scale watch them race there is a common comment. I hear it every time I see scale go......."why are they so slow?" At least twice I've hear "like watching paint dry".

My point is, it might be worth considering a bit more power for these in the future. Just a bit. Not like Neu power. If you guys are thinking about moving to something outside of the RTR selection that doesn't break the bank you might at as well make the performance better. It might trickle out into the rest of the country that way. ERCU used to run Astro motors if I remember correctly so I doubt anybody cares about the RTR market motors.

We tried an SS 3650 in limited just before the water froze. With the SS brand the 3650 didn't have enough rotor mass to turn props the boats want. Even in the cold water they couldn't give us what we wanted. We have a couple different options coming in to test but the water is a bit chunky here now. The Leopard may be different.

A good possibility might be the TP motor that Peterson is using in D4. That would likely be a bit tougher, a tic more power, and "should" be available for longer period.

Those outrunners have a higher heat tolerance. I'm surprised nobody has thrown more prop at them.

[rayzerdesigns]

I like that idea terry..I think classic thunder in their modern class which is division 3 is any motor..only their vintage and older hydrostatic run spec motors..I know name a rules and ercu run spec..but I don't think 50 mph or little faster is slow..If you talk to most of the guys it's more for scale realism..but I also like to go faster..I have had my modern at 60 with a 40x74 motor..but if u flip at that speed..pretty much assured a loss of hull..it is a fun class..I should have my scorpion motor here on monday..and I fully plan on throwing some prop at it..

[Darin Jordan]

Racing is racing, whether the boats are capable of 40 or 50 or 60. Plus, speed just makes more damage, and scale is hard enough to do without the additional damage.

[rayzerdesigns]

I agree..The racing seems to be close..and believe me..When u crash and destroy a 900$ hull..it hurts..

[T.S.Davis]

I understand Darin but if the speeds don't attract people..................next thing you know you have N1 participation. 10th scale doesn't run much outside of a couple pockets.