Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 56

Thread: Delta or Wye

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    1,711

    Default Delta or Wye

    The WYE motor winding is used in higher torque or higher voltage applications. Typically, DELTA motor winding is used in lower voltage or higher speed applications.

    If you take a Wye winding motor (1000kv)and change it to a delta winding motor you will see it change to 1732kv. You will see a higher kv motor with less torque. Torque will be reduced by 43%.

    Three phase motors come in two wiring patterns. It is called Delta because the three phases are hooked together in a triangle arrangement. Phase one uses terminals A & B. Phase two uses B & C. Phase three uses C & A. In electrical talk the phases are 120 degrees out of phase with each other. You could think of it as firing order in a multi cylinder gas engine. The Electronic Speed Control (ESC) first talks to or sends power to phase one. Then it waits 120 degree and sends power to phase two. And at 240 degrees it sends power to phase three. At 360 degrees (120 X 3) the whole process starts over again.

    Y wind where each leg of the Y is a phase and the center of the Y is common. Y wind typically has higher winding resistance as two windings are in series for each phase. This is why some controllers have problems with delta motors. Delta gives a lower voltage feedback pulse to the controller.

    I guess the delta winding could be used in a a lighter, lower voltage. high rpm setup or a hydro that does not require a lot of torque. The more effecient wye winding works in all applications and is better for heavier mono or cat setups.

    Anyone can chime in here. Something new I am trying to understand.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by ReddyWatts; 08-12-2007 at 02:35 PM.
    ReddyWatts fleet photo
    M1 Supercat - Neu 1527 1Y, 8s / Mean Machine- Feigao 580, 8s, 120 HV esc
    Mean Machine - Feigao 540 14XL, 8s, 100 amp HV esc, X537/3

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nj
    Posts
    4,735

    Default

    Mr. Watts you explained that well. I understood it all and I'm not trained or in the field. Nice job. But man..you are WAY over my head....LOL :D. Thanks for the education though :). If it’s any consolation it makes perfect sense to me.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    1,711

    Default

    I always wondered about the Neu and Lehner motors that were either Wye or Delta windings. Which one should I use? Well, that was the way I understood it. I hope its right?
    Last edited by ReddyWatts; 08-12-2007 at 02:30 PM.
    ReddyWatts fleet photo
    M1 Supercat - Neu 1527 1Y, 8s / Mean Machine- Feigao 580, 8s, 120 HV esc
    Mean Machine - Feigao 540 14XL, 8s, 100 amp HV esc, X537/3

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    1,711

    Default

    Now I kinda understand the difference between a Y and D motor. What is the difference in a 1Y, 1.5Y and a 2Y Neu motor? Does it represent something or is it just a model number?
    Last edited by ReddyWatts; 08-14-2007 at 06:01 PM.
    ReddyWatts fleet photo
    M1 Supercat - Neu 1527 1Y, 8s / Mean Machine- Feigao 580, 8s, 120 HV esc
    Mean Machine - Feigao 540 14XL, 8s, 100 amp HV esc, X537/3

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    1,711

    Default

    Example of the same motor wired delta and wye.

    NEU
    1521/1.5y = 1050 rpm
    1521/1.5d = 1850 rpm

    1521/1.5Y will handle from 8-55 volts and is a 90%+ effecient motor with more torque. Max effeciency amps 50.

    1521/1.5D will handle from 8-32 volts and is a 85%+ effecient motor with less torque. Max effeciency amps 90.

    All rating calculations between the motors have a 1.732 relational value between a Wye and Delta connection.
    Last edited by ReddyWatts; 08-13-2007 at 08:14 AM.
    ReddyWatts fleet photo
    M1 Supercat - Neu 1527 1Y, 8s / Mean Machine- Feigao 580, 8s, 120 HV esc
    Mean Machine - Feigao 540 14XL, 8s, 100 amp HV esc, X537/3

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Wi
    Posts
    190

    Default

    ReddyWatts..thanks a bunch for the explanation & diagram. how well you explained that.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    co
    Posts
    1,973

    Default

    ??????????????? My head hurts now, but I learned something:D

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    189

    Default Neu Nomenclature

    Neu motors are named DDLL, where DD is the stator diameter, and LL is the rotor length, both in tenths of an inch. For example,

    1512 motor
    Stator diameter: 1.5 in
    Rotor length: 1.2 in

    (See this spec sheet, which, for some reason, I can't find on Neu's own site.)

    Now, can anyone tell me what the number before the D or Y stands for? Is it the number of turns? In other words, does the 1512/2.5D/S have 2.5 turns to each wind?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Fr
    Posts
    1,300

    Default

    I'm getting back to this thread as I'm planning to get one of these nice motors, but nobody answered to the last question from Skeeler!
    Does anybody knows what the number before D and Y stands for?
    Emmanuel
    I'm french but I doubt I really am!
    http://pagesperso-orange.fr/pleindetrucs/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,556

    Default

    Its the number of winds from what I have been told. THe lower the number (winds) the higher the KV.
    Team Liquid Dash

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    774

    Default

    It is the number of wraps of wire around each stator or the number of turns of wire around the stator.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Fr
    Posts
    1,300

    Default

    thanks!
    Emmanuel
    I'm french but I doubt I really am!
    http://pagesperso-orange.fr/pleindetrucs/

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    ON
    Posts
    8,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
    ??????????????? My head hurts now, but I learned something:D
    I agree mine too...

    Still confused better go eat and then re-read...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    7,648

    Cool

    ...I guess the delta winding could be used in a a lighter, lower voltage. high rpm setup or a hydro that does not require a lot of torque. The more effecient wye winding works in all applications and is better for heavier mono or cat setups....
    Wow, a pretty old thread! But looking at it again with two more years' experience I think the above is just a bit too simplified. To say that the WYE motor has more torque is not always true in the real world - in other words in an FE boat. An example would be two motors suited for 6S boats, the 1527/1.5D (1500 Kv) and the 1527/1Y (1250 Kv). In the same boat the DELTA motor appears to have a lot more torque, as the boat accelerates much harder than with the WYE wind. So in the same application, the D has the edge for raw power. The Y is a bit easier to drive as the power delivery seems more linear, due to the reduced torque.

    To say that DELTA motors are for low voltage use is not quite accurate either. The 1527/3.5D (probably not available two years ago) has a Kv of 660 rpm, not very conducive to a low voltage setup.


    1521/1.5Y will handle from 8-55 volts
    1521/1.5D will handle from 8-32 volts
    The difference here is due to the Kv, not the wind type. The 1521 motor is rpm limited, and the theoretical rpm at max voltage for each is:

    1521/1.5Y = 58,000 rpm
    1521/1.5D = 61,000 rpm

    The maximum motor speed (due most likely to the bearings used) is 60,000 rpm, and the voltages listed above are the closest to that limit.




    .

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    HI
    Posts
    1,679

    Default

    I know it's an old thread but I keep hearing that delta winds are amp hogs. Is it true and why is that? Given that each wind is in a comparable kv rating.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    ON
    Posts
    8,690

    Default

    Something to do with shorter length of wire for power to travel through, less resistance..?
    Nortavlag Bulc

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    103

    Default

    yup, V=IR. At a given voltage, less resistance= more amperage. Take a look at the Delta and Wye diagrams on top and focus on the Resistances. Let's say for example resistances Ra,Rb, Rc, R1,R2, and R3 are all 3ohms and our voltage is 15 volts. R of a series circuit is simply R1+R2+R3... so on and so forth. R of a parallel circuit is 1/R=1/R1+1/R2+1/R3....etc.

    So for the delta wind, the effective resistance of a single phase going off the equations is 1/R=1/6+1/3, or 2ohms. On the Wye wind you simply get 6ohms. So while the delta wind pulls 7.5A (using V=IR) the wye only uses 2.5A. This also means that a delta wind motor of similar kv equivelancy to a wye should handle more wattage since you're passing current through a much lower resistance.

    To add to Fluid's explanation of Delta wind motor having more torque, Power(W)=(Torque)(2pi)(rotations/second), so using the previous situation of same kv delta and wye motors, the one that consumes more power (watts) will have greater torque. Hopefully this helps clarify how it all works
    Last edited by supafastsupra2; 06-11-2010 at 02:10 AM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    4,204

    Default

    Can a mod make this a "sticky" PLEASE?!?
    - Diesel's Youtube
    - Diesel's Fleet
    "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    ON
    Posts
    8,690

    Default Sticky

    That would be nice until I can memorize it.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    774

    Default

    Amps = torque

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    4,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jcald2000 View Post
    Amps = torque
    Way off, thats not even remotely true IMHO take 2 motor same size and length 3674 one 3000kv one 1500kv same voltage same prop, the higher kv is gonna pull more amps, it will have higher rpms, but less torque. The wattage would be higher also amps x volts = watts. Doesn't mean it has more torque though. With that theory I can stick a insanely high kv motor in a larger hull and because the amps draw is so high that means it has more torque?

    Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
    - Diesel's Youtube
    - Diesel's Fleet
    "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    ST
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Maybe the other way around is closer to the truth, although you shouldn't mix electric motors with gas engines Voltage = torqe, Amps = horse power.

    A 1500 kv might not be insane but it's strong and reliable, like a diesel.
    A 4000 kv is totally insane but heats up fast and and eats a lot of amps = F1 engine

    Boats like diesel engines. Just look at the commercial fleet.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,759

    Default

    volts*amps= watts
    1hp= ~750W
    what i still am missing about brushless motors is multiple poles, is it just the diagrams in the first post on top of each other and then offset ? so there are 6 outpust instead of 3 on the wye wind?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    774

    Default

    Sorry Diesel, Thats not what my eagle tree has been telling me for 10 years, but to each his own.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    547

    Default

    Great information here, thanks for the explanation.

    My new TP 4082 2200kV motor is a 6D wind. I know D's are supposed to have low timing, but what's the range?

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    ON
    Posts
    8,690

    Default

    Five to start, ten at most.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    547

    Default

    Thanks Ray. It's set to 3.75 and my next option is 7.something (T180), for sport boating should I just leave it or try the 7.something?

  28. #28
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    2,980

    Default

    Out here in the 'real world' of industrial application.. large motors have delta start followed by wye run switching circuits.
    Delta have abundant torque from stall (at low rpm ) , same wind Wye are better for higher rpm and control...

    Pole explanations can mimic cylinders in an engine..the more poles, the more times the mag rotor is 'fired' per revolution..
    A 2 pole motor is more likely to stall at low rpm/high load than a multiple pole motor.

    W
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    ON
    Posts
    8,690

    Default

    So, maybe over simplified buuut, Y winds accellerate faster to top speed than D winds and D winds can run heavier loads for longer times but, don't accelerate as quickly? Also, it's more work to get the D wind (more heat & amps) up to full rpm than a Y wind?
    Nortavlag Bulc

  30. #30
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    2,980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ray schrauwen View Post
    So, maybe over simplified buuut, Y winds accellerate faster to top speed than D winds and D winds can run heavier loads for longer times but, don't accelerate as quickly? Also, it's more work to get the D wind (more heat & amps) up to full rpm than a Y wind?
    err, ahh...
    Bloke here runs petrol motors.. claims his the fastest 'ever' because can free rev to 19k5 rpm... although reckons his props must be poor because onwater he averages 16k5...
    Higher torque motor would offer higher rpm support under load... although the wye motor would have run longer for the same total mAh consumption.2
    Are your boats leaders, or followers ?

    My light hulls use wye.. heavier get delta.

    end of day it's the motor/prop combination you choose that determines final outcomes... and both DorY are suitable... to the right wheel ..
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •