TFL Ariane CF and FG hulls

[skeeler]

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I figured 8S would be overkill.

[785boats]

That's lookin pretty good, did you do any work to the prop other than S&B?

I only backcut it about 1mm at the hub. Might de-tongue it a bit next.

[IRON-PAWW]

Ok - ran it for the first time the other day. Tp Pro Comp 4060 1690kv. 6s. 2 x 3s Entropy 5800's mounted either side of motor. RCBB dual pickup rudder, which is the same length as the stock rudder. Single drive cable. The problem I have is that once I get up a little speed the boat leans (rolls) to the right. Gets slightly worse as it goes faster but not drastically so. Noted the rudder was slightly angled in toward the transom - could that cause the roll?? Ran it with M445 as a first run test. Tried a 3 blade prop another club member had with no change to the roll effect. Suggestions?

[msundsd5]

I have one of these hulls (It's my Avatar Picture) and I experience the same problem when getting up to speed. The back end wants to wobble around and lean back and forth when getting up to about 55mph - 60 mph. Any suggestions from those of you who seem to have figured that out? I put a slower system in it to tame it but I want SPEED!!! HA HAAAAAAAAA

[flraptor07]

I have one of these hulls (It's my Avatar Picture) and I experience the same problem when getting up to speed. The back end wants to wobble around and lean back and forth when getting up to about 55mph - 60 mph. Any suggestions from those of you who seem to have figured that out? I put a slower system in it to tame it but I want SPEED!!! HA HAAAAAAAAA

I have mine set up with a TP 4070 1770kv on 6s 2p one pack on each side of the motor and about 1/2 ahead with a SF 240 pro+ in the middle just ahead of the motor running a Prather 230 stainless which is a little over 48.5mm. I have the stock trim tabs with the inside pair set neutral and the outside pair about 1deg. down and I put some Aquacraft Rio 51 turn fins on it and the stinger is set neutral also. With that setup it runs a little over 65mph GPS and it runs like its on rails with no wobbleing or leaning, it's one of my favorite boats.

[785boats]

Hi guys.
That is known as Chine Walking. A lot of boats with the flat ride pad can do that.
I have some slight positive angle on the strut to help plant he rear of the boat. About one degree is all.
The leading edge of the rudder angled back a couple of degrees.
The outside trim tabs have the trailing edges touching a straight edge that is held along the bottom of the hull.
The inside trim tabs are parallel with the straight edge.
COG is at 270mm 11-1/2") from the transom.
The turn fins I replaced with larger ones and cut the bottoms off. But that was to help in the turns. Nothing to do with Chine Walk. The fins should be out of the water in the straights.
Scuff the shine off the bottom of the hull with some 400 paper.
And make sure the prop is thin & sharp. If it won't cut your finger it won't cut the water. A blunt prop goes a long way to starting the whole Chine Walk oscillation thing.

I'm not saying that those things will work on your boats, but it works on mine. Each boat is different & you will still have to tune it a bit to match your weight, prop & revs etc.
I hope other boaters chime in with some set up tips too.
A quick pic of the inside of mine & the transom if it's any help. Although the pics are deceiving in regards to the rudder blade. It actually leans back a bit more than it seems in the pics.
Cheers.
Paul.

[785boats]

I have mine set up with a TP 4070 1770kv on 6s 2p one pack on each side of the motor and about 1/2 ahead with a SF 240 pro+ in the middle just ahead of the motor running a Prather 230 stainless which is a little over 48.5mm. I have the stock trim tabs with the inside pair set neutral and the outside pair about 1deg. down and I put some Aquacraft Rio 51 turn fins on it and the stinger is set neutral also. With that setup it runs a little over 65mph GPS and it runs like its on rails with no wobbleing or leaning, it's one of my favorite boats.

Looks like you posted while I was taking the pics of the transom. Very similar set ups. /
Except you have the extra weight of two packs Most likely the reason for the difference in Strut angle.

[IRON-PAWW]

Ok- my issue isn't chine walking. My Spartan does that in spades so I'm very familiar with it :). My issue is more like torque roll. At rest the boat sits perfectly. Slower speeds no issue. When I start to pick up a little speed the boat begins to lean to the right hand side, and stays leaning to the right hand side until I slow down. Now - will a rudder that slopes in toward the transom cause this? So - the tip of the rudder is closer to the transom than say at the hinge? I noticed mine was slightly angled this way - now I have it set pretty much as 785 shows in his pic. But not tested yet with that change made.

[flraptor07]

Looks like you posted while I was taking the pics of the transom. Very similar set ups. /
Except you have the extra weight of two packs Most likely the reason for the difference in Strut angle.

Yes Paul, our trim tab settings are identical and I'm sure you're right about the stinger setting being because of the packs. What prop are you running?

[785boats]

IRON-PAWW.
I guess the Chine walk description was aimed more at msndsd5.
But your torque roll problem could also be the prop. As I recall the M445 props are pretty thick out of the mould & require quite a lot of thinning while sharpening & balancing them. Thick props blunt can cause a lot of torque roll.
With the rudder, when viewed from behind the boat, is it perfectly vertical with the vertical centre line of the boat? A rudder angled sideways can cause a boat to lean a bit. It doesn't take much.
It's best if the rudders' leading edge is level with the front of the prop too. This can have some effect on negating torque steer & roll.
The only other thing is the trim tabs. Are they the same on both sides of the boat when measured with a straight edge on the bottom of the hull? If so, maybe screw down the right hand tab a fraction more.
If all the above are fine & true & level etc you could try balancing the hull with the batteries.
If your packs are either side of the motor maybe move the right hand battery in as close as possible to the keel & the left one out a bit to help counteract the roll.
I can't think of anything else.


flraptor.
The X446/3 blade prop is still the best one for my setup. Finishes the race with between 28-32% left in the pack. Sort of just enough for a penalty lap if I jump the start.
Thanks for reminding me. I need to de-tongue it before practice on Sunday. Just to see how much difference it makes. Hopefully it will gain a bit of speed & put a few milliamps back in the tank

Cheers.
Paul.

[flraptor07]

IRON-PAWW.


flraptor.
The X446/3 blade prop is still the best one for my setup. Finishes the race with between 28-32% left in the pack. Sort of just enough for a penalty lap if I jump the start.
Thanks for reminding me. I need to de-tongue it before practice on Sunday. Just to see how much difference it makes. Hopefully it will gain a bit of speed & put a few milliamps back in the tank

Cheers.
Paul.

Yeah now that you mention it I remember we talked about de-tongueing before and you said you were going to try it for a little speed and to take some lift out. The old brain still does work a little...

[msundsd5]

Thank you so much fellas, this is some very useful information. I will be trying some things over the next couple weeks so I will chime back in on this thread in a couple weeks to let you know how it's going! Your awesome! I have been trying to get this boat to ride right for Sooooooooo longer and it seems to be on the only boat of mine not in the 60's, 70's, 80's, or 90's.... Highest I got it up to was 58 mph before I threw in the tile cause I needed a break from it. I LOVE the hull and am excited to get back at it again!!!

[kenrid]

IRON-PAWW: The 3 blade we tried last week was in fact an Octura X646/3. I have since spent more time sharpening and balancing it. I was quite happy with my first sail, also note I am using the stock rudder with single water pick up whereas the RCBB is much wider. Given we are running a two 3S @5800mAh configuration, obviously we need to experiment with more props. An excellent hull, with great turning characteristics, congratulations to TFL. I am sure we can push over 105 km/hr (65mph) out of this one.

Paul: - X446/3 does not appear to be an Octura? Have I missed something?

[785boats]

No, the 4614 I was using was a CNC prop

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...od=cnc-4614350

But this is the 646/3 I have on it now.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...d=oct-x646%2F3

Steve has them already sharpened & balanced in the "Sharpened & Balanced" section on his props pace if you want to save yourself some work.

[IRON-PAWW]

Paul,

Thanks for your reply. I think you pretty much summed up all I could read about torque roll - and torque roll-related issues, which was ace man. Cheers.

First comment I think is that the M445 is a Dasboata S+B prop I happened to have in my toolbox. Got a M545 in there too but I'm really just testing with those at the moment. I do actually have a CnC 4614 (2 blade) though I just noticed. Have a S+B Octura 646/3 coming from OSE though too, along with the 3 blade CNC 4614350. So - plenty to test with there. I actually got the same-ish torque roll issues with Kenrid's 646/3.

Another thought. I seem to remember someone mentioning torque roll issues possibly related to thrust bearings?? I do have a thrust bearing fitted - a possible issue?

Another factor - The hull is definitely hooked on both sides, from the transom to about 10-15cm back. Very noticeable when I place a straight edge there. As long as the hook is more or less the same on both sides this shouldn't be an issue right?

Could there be something going on with that bigger RCBB rudder? Sits tight with only a shade of slop.


In any case - took some pics of what I've got.


So yeah - I'm pretty sure the rudder isn't exactly square. No matter how I look at it - or what rudder I fit, I think the rudder mount is slightly off. Surely though this wouldn't make the roll get worse with speed would it? Like the roll caused by the woof in the rudder would be constant wouldn't it?




This is pretty much what you mean by the rudders' leading edge is level with the front of the prop? However, add the gap for flex wind up.