Mah resitrictions

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  • T.S.Davis
    Fast Electric Addict!
    • Oct 2009
    • 6221

    #31
    Yeah that's interesting Larry. I've been told this for years but it's not really true. You have to stick to the safety rules. The book says that failure to comply with the safety rules may result in a loss of coverage. Paraphrasing. No where does the book say "You must comply with every letter of this document or you will not be insured". I've been told repeatedly "Well, they expect us to follow our own rules". Expect? Good luck with that in court. If it's not on paper it didn't happen. Ever see cats and monos sprint together? Guess were uninsured at that point. Nonsense.

    Cell counts and battery specs aren't in the safety rules. If the insurance company wanted to jam that "you weren't following the rules" thing down our throats then no event that I'm aware of since lipo was introduced would have been covered because no event that I'm aware of has ever truly tech'd the mah's. You could read the label but who knows what's under the label if you don't do a full discharge and then a subsequent recharge. Then do you discharge down to 0% before a refill to absolutely sure? If we were getting all lawyer'y, "Where's the documentation proving that you checked it?"

    Checking them with absolute certainty should only take an entire day for tech for each day of racing. The only thing I check is voltage. I don't think anyone escaped scrutiny at the Cup last summer. If I missed someone I apologize. I'll be sure to check all of your crap this year. We've relied entirely on good faith since introduction of Lipo.

    The whole restriction thing was an attempt to appease those that were convinced Lipo would spell the end of racing. Same response that brushless motors received. "RACING IS RUINED! WE'RE JUST RACING WALLETS NOW! THAT'S IT! I'M OUT!"

    Still not sure how to address the twins thing. Larry's 6s3p twin Q cat scenario is pretty realistic and would likely come in under weight. Not sure it would be drive able but it is possible. We're planning to test a 20k single Q cat for Atlanta. See if that works. Weight is under easy.

    John, I'm not sure it matters what the CD states on the flier. If a guy shows up with cells that don't have labels at all........ how does the CD know anything more than the voltage? Hmmmmm, those look like 5600 2p to me. The sketchy part would be the legitimacy of the results. For instance, one could argue that a national championship awarded to a racer whose cells were not dumped and recharged to verify compliance with the MAH restrictions is not legit. Ridiculous but you could make the argument.

    Every record run is tech'd for compliance with the rules.......accept the mah restrictions because to do so is a nightmare. I've signed some record applications. I've not checked the mah. Only voltage. I doubt that the SAW guys are doing a complete discharge and recharge.
    Noisy person

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    • Doby
      KANADA RULES!
      • Apr 2007
      • 7280

      #32
      The only reason I brought up the CD/Flyer thing was if someone who had some 6000 packs and they wanted to run in 2P
      they could (like P-Mono/Cat) without having to buy new packs....
      Grand River Marine Modellers
      https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...ne%20modellers

      Comment

      • Doby
        KANADA RULES!
        • Apr 2007
        • 7280

        #33
        I think I'm going to re-label all my packs as 4S Flux Capacitors.
        Grand River Marine Modellers
        https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...ne%20modellers

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        • jaike5
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 561

          #34
          Didn't the mah limit restrict the size of prop you could spin in off shore and the roundy round? now more mah means bigger wheel, go faster and so on. next will it be length and weigh restrictions changed to hold more batteries . now safety really becomes an issue. instead of an 18lb T- boat doing 65mph in the roundy round, now you may have 30lb boat doing 75plus mph.... and the wakes would be massive with 4-6 T-boats, yikes !! just my .02, race on

          Cheers, Jay.

          Comment

          • Brushless55
            Creator
            • Oct 2008
            • 9488

            #35
            Originally posted by T.S.Davis
            Every record run is tech'd for compliance with the rules.......accept the mah restrictions because to do so is a nightmare. I've signed some record applications. I've not checked the mah. Only voltage. I doubt that the SAW guys are doing a complete discharge and recharge.
            are the 2 lap and SAW runs held to the 10,000mah limit in P and Q classes ?
            or are they allowed to run more ?
            thanks
            .NAMBA20...Caterpillar UL-1, P-Spec OM29, P-Mono DF33, P-Spec JAE, Aussie 33" Hydro-LSH, Sprintcat CC2028 on 8s, PT SS45 Q Hydro, PS295 UL-1 power, OSE Brothers Outlaw QMono 4-sale, Rio 51z CC2028 on 8s

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            • T.S.Davis
              Fast Electric Addict!
              • Oct 2009
              • 6221

              #36
              Supposed to be. I don't think the SAW guys typically carry the max.
              Noisy person

              Comment

              • TRUCKPULL
                Fast Electric Addict!
                • Apr 2007
                • 2971

                #37
                Originally posted by Doby
                The only reason I brought up the CD/Flyer thing was if someone who had some 6000 packs and they wanted to run in 2P
                they could (like P-Mono/Cat) without having to buy new packs....
                John
                If they had two 2S - 6,000mAmp packs, there is NO problem running them in series, you end up with a 4S1P - 6,000mAmp pack.
                This is still under the MAX limit of 10,000mAmp's on board.

                If you had two 4S- 6,000mAmp packs, and connect them parallel, you end up with a 4S2P - 12,000mAmp pack - NO -over the MAX -10,000mAMP on board.

                If you want to go this way- I could sell a my Offshore Motors, and 5,000mAmp batteries and buy all 6,600mAmp packs, then I could just run my oval setups in Offshore.
                This way also my oval setups will run faster seeing that the output voltage under load would be higher with the higher capacity packs.

                Larry
                Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
                Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
                Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

                Comment

                • Doug Smock
                  Moderator
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 5272

                  #38
                  "I don't think anyone escaped scrutiny at the Cup last summer".

                  I know Don and I were checked frequently. We were starting to get a complex. lol I think the T mono was checked before every heat.

                  Edit: It was as it should be, I'm not complaining!
                  MODEL BOAT RACER
                  IMPBA President
                  District 13 Director 2011- present
                  IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
                  IMPBA 19887L CD
                  NAMBA 1169

                  Comment

                  • T.S.Davis
                    Fast Electric Addict!
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 6221

                    #39
                    I know Doug. I knew what you were running. I didn't want to hear any BS later about Smock this or Smock that. I'm sure you already know this but I wasn't trying to catch a single person cheating. I was preventing others from making accusations later. It wouldn't have come from anyone at our race. It would have come from people NOT at our race. The usual sources.

                    I checked Einstein and PAGS about 86 times. Fireball got a bunch of visits too. I tried to accost everyone at some point. Probably skipped the kids boats.
                    Noisy person

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                    • Doug Smock
                      Moderator
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 5272

                      #40
                      Oh yeah I "get it" Terry. Not to catch someone cheating, it's to prove they're not. I appreciate you being on the front end of it!
                      MODEL BOAT RACER
                      IMPBA President
                      District 13 Director 2011- present
                      IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
                      IMPBA 19887L CD
                      NAMBA 1169

                      Comment

                      • TRUCKPULL
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 2971

                        #41
                        Doug

                        Terry, Fred & the MI gang run one of, if not the best and fairest races in North America.

                        Larry
                        Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
                        Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
                        Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

                        Comment

                        • Doby
                          KANADA RULES!
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 7280

                          #42
                          Originally posted by TRUCKPULL
                          John
                          If they had two 2S - 6,000mAmp packs, there is NO problem running them in series, you end up with a 4S1P - 6,000mAmp pack.
                          This is still under the MAX limit of 10,000mAmp's on board.

                          If you had two 4S- 6,000mAmp packs, and connect them parallel, you end up with a 4S2P - 12,000mAmp pack - NO -over the MAX -10,000mAMP on board.


                          Larry
                          Thanks Larry, but I've been doing math for a few years now and already had that figured out...

                          I'm just saying that if some newby, like a Smock or Don H are entering their first race with their P Mono and want to join in on the craziness with their 2, 4S 6000mah packs to run in parallel, could they still be allowed to run if the race waiver allows a bit extra capacity? I'd hate to think some folks would be turned away for a few extra mah. Unless of course its for a formal record of some sort.
                          Grand River Marine Modellers
                          https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...ne%20modellers

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                          • Doby
                            KANADA RULES!
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 7280

                            #43
                            Originally posted by TRUCKPULL
                            Doug

                            Terry, Fred & the MI gang run one of, if not the best and fairest races in North America.

                            Larry
                            The're a bunch of bums...Terry needs a calculator to figure out a 4s packs voltage.
                            Grand River Marine Modellers
                            https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...ne%20modellers

                            Comment

                            • Doby
                              KANADA RULES!
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 7280

                              #44
                              Originally posted by T.S.Davis
                              I know Doug. I knew what you were running. I didn't want to hear any BS later about Smock this or Smock that. I'm sure you already know this but I wasn't trying to catch a single person cheating. I was preventing others from making accusations later. It wouldn't have come from anyone at our race. It would have come from people NOT at our race. The usual sources.

                              I checked Einstein and PAGS about 86 times. Fireball got a bunch of visits too. I tried to accost everyone at some point. Probably skipped the kids boats.
                              Checking Kanadians packs voltages is a waste of time, we're the most honest people on the planet. Southerners though...well that's a whole different ball game....they've always got a extra cell up their sleeves.
                              Grand River Marine Modellers
                              https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...ne%20modellers

                              Comment

                              • TRUCKPULL
                                Fast Electric Addict!
                                • Apr 2007
                                • 2971

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Doby
                                I'm just saying that if some newby, like a Smock or Don H are entering their first race with their P Mono and want to join in on the craziness with their 2, 4S 6000mah packs to run in parallel, could they still be allowed to run if the race waiver allows a bit extra capacity? I'd hate to think some folks would be turned away for a few extra mah. Unless of course its for a formal record of some sort.
                                John

                                If it is club race - No Problem

                                If it is a NAT's or MI Cup size race - NO WAY

                                To allow one person the extra capacity is a big advantage to that person.
                                Higher capacity cells give higher voltage under load.

                                To put it in the race flier, means that everyone else has to buy new packs to compete.
                                It is easer for that one person to borrow or buy legal packs for the race.

                                Larry
                                Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
                                Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
                                Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

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