NAMBA's P Limited Rules.

[Terry Keeley]

Hey guys. First off I don't want to start a $hit storm here but I've heard some of the struggles IMPBA has had to adopt P Limited (or spec if you prefer) rules and as an outsider was wondering what's wrong with the NAMBA rule?

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=64435566455964460802

Basically a 60 mm x 37 mm motor and 34" boat length. Simple. Easy to tech at a Record Trial or for a protest.

Why doesn't IMPBA just adopt this rule for simplicity and conformity across the organizations?

Not to "count our chickens before they're hatched" but we will be applying to the IMPBA Board to have a "Nationals" designation added to our Can-Am race for 2020 and as per IMPBA Rule Book, Section E - II 4a (top of page E3 here: https://nebula.wsimg.com/bba6c9da9b8...&alloworigin=1) we will only be allowed to offer classes in the Rule Book. As you know there are no P-Limited or P-Spec classes currently in the IMPBA rules.

Without this rule in place I can see that many of our FE friends will not be coming to our race next year. This will be a shame and does not comply with Section B-1, Article II-B of our Constitution "The fostering of Model Power Boat Building".

Why can't we get this done?

[Fluid]

[Doby]

And we're off................................

[ray schrauwen]

Those that ran these classes at previous CanAm races under IMPBA pretty much followed that same rule. A handful of people use ‘tweaked’ motors but still within NAMBA rule set and tweaked or not makes little difference imo.

Doby don’t matter as he’s just in the clouds these days, haha. Heck, me too in my own way...

God willing I will be out next year and I can handle any rules, just fun too do laps is all.

Good luck Terry.

[jaike5]

[HTVboats]

I would love to see IMPBA adopt the motor rule and actually recognize and support a growing class. What is the downside? How would it negatively affect racing as we know it?
Mic

[ezhitz]

[dethow]

...we will be applying to the IMPBA Board to have a "Nationals" designation added to our Can-Am race for 2020 and as per IMPBA Rule Book, Section E - II 4a (top of page E3 here: https://nebula.wsimg.com/bba6c9da9b8...&alloworigin=1) we will only be allowed to offer classes in the Rule Book. As you know there are no P-Limited or P-Spec classes currently in the IMPBA rules.

Thank you Terry Keeley for taking the time to read and understand the rule book.

But as IMPBA leadership did previously (2018 FE Nationals)... they will probably just say you can run them (P-Spec Classes) anyway and use whatever rules the hosting club would like to use.

Apparently its easier for them to just NOT follow the rule book then actually put the most popular FE classes into the rule book.

Good luck with it all...

[dethow]

BTW Terry...
You do have the ability to run the spec classes as exhibition classes at a nationals event.
You just can’t award them with a “National Champion” status on trophies or anything else.
Awards should simply say 1st, 2nd and 3rd place.

Pretty simple stuff... can’t award an IMPBA National Championship to classes which don’t exist in the rule book.
Thank you again, Terry Keeley for reading the rule book and understanding that.

[Terry Keeley]

Thank you Terry Keeley for taking the time to read and understand the rule book.

But as IMPBA leadership did previously (2018 FE Nationals)... they will probably just say you can run them (P-Spec Classes) anyway and use whatever rules the hosting club would like to use.

Apparently its easier for them to just NOT follow the rule book then actually put the most popular FE classes into the rule book.

Good luck with it all...

Actually the IMPBA Board WAS following the Rule Book at the "2018 FE Nationals" since this was an "Annual International and National Regatta" as specified on page E3 of the Rule Book: https://nebula.wsimg.com/bba6c9da9b8...&alloworigin=1

Here's the part that applies:

2. An IMPBA National Regatta will consist of multi-boat heat racing run using one of the approved
Nationals formats.
a. Established IMPBA engine classifications will be offered for National Champion status.
b. Optional special events may be offered.
c. A minimum of 6 boats per class must be presented for racing.
d. The winners at an IMPBA National Regatta will be awarded “National Champion”. Special
events winners will be awarded First, Second, Third Place.

What I mean is if a club is awarded a "Nats or Nationals" designation, as the rules are now a new club could not offer "special events". I've submitted a proposal to our IMPBA President to change this unfair rule, it should be discussed and voted on in December.

Hopefully the Board will see that this is unfair and unjust to new clubs should they be awarded a (regional) "Nats or Nationals" designation.

[T.S.Davis]

Sorry Terry. Yer making me giggle. You know where I am on it. I'm not the only one of the same opinion you just expressed. There are other districts asking the same kind of questions. It's a safe wager that it doesn't matter. Our guys already collected 5 signatures but we likely wont submit. Kind of a waste of time and I'm simply not up to the fall out.

Of note, we only hit 3 good sized races this summer. All 3 had different rules for limited. Atlanta, is different than NAMBA. Michigan Cup was different from Atlanta and NAMBA. The CanAm was different than NAMBA, the Cup, and Atlanta.

You "could" offer them for your event as exhibition as Dave described. However if I remember correctly, for your gig you will need a max boat count in the 230-235 range. Somewhere in there. Based on your expected client/racer it would make more sense to increase the allowed number of gas mono/cat/T boat (or something) than it would to add exhibition classes. Just makes sense. I don't know. Above my pay grade.

[T.S.Davis]

b. Optional special events may be offered.

Not to get all lawyer...y but do they define "special event" anywhere? We don't refer to any other classes as "events" but "special events" means exhibition classes? Other places in the book like for instance a racer with three penalties should be disqualified from the "event". But for a nats we assume that a "special event" is a class. Makes no damned sense at all.

If a driver incurs 3 of any combination of Infraction Penalties or Heat Disqualifications during the course of a sanctioned racing event regardless of the hull or motor classes the penalties were committed, the driver will be disqualified from the entire event and all points accumulated during that event will be lost.

Nobody realizes either that what I just posted includes lane infractions as well as DQ's. I never realized either that enforcement is in fact NOT optional. Blew that call a coupe times at a single event. Tangent! Sorry.

[dethow]

Actually the IMPBA Board WAS following the Rule Book at the "2018 FE Nationals" since this was an "Annual International and National Regatta" as specified on page E3 of the Rule Book: https://nebula.wsimg.com/bba6c9da9b8...&alloworigin=1

Here's the part that applies:

2. An IMPBA National Regatta will consist of multi-boat heat racing run using one of the approved
Nationals formats.
a. Established IMPBA engine classifications will be offered for National Champion status.
b. Optional special events may be offered.
c. A minimum of 6 boats per class must be presented for racing.
d. The winners at an IMPBA National Regatta will be awarded ?National Champion?. Special events winners will be awarded First, Second, Third Place.

What I mean is if a club is awarded a "Nats or Nationals" designation, as the rules are now a new club could not offer "special events". I've submitted a proposal to our IMPBA President to change this unfair rule, it should be discussed and voted on in December.

Hopefully the Board will see that this is unfair and unjust to new clubs should they be awarded a (regional) "Nats or Nationals" designation.

Yes Terry they were allowed to include Spec as Special Events or Exhibition Classes as I called them. But were it went wrong is that can?t award Special Events with a National Champion status on the awards. It specifically says that in the rules.
d. The winners at an IMPBA National Regatta will be awarded ?National Champion?. Special
events winners will be awarded First, Second, Third Place.

[Terry Keeley]

Sorry Terry. Yer making me giggle. You know where I am on it. I'm not the only one of the same opinion you just expressed. There are other districts asking the same kind of questions. It's a safe wager that it doesn't matter. Our guys already collected 5 signatures but we likely wont submit. Kind of a waste of time and I'm simply not up to the fall out.

Of note, we only hit 3 good sized races this summer. All 3 had different rules for limited. Atlanta, is different than NAMBA. Michigan Cup was different from Atlanta and NAMBA. The CanAm was different than NAMBA, the Cup, and Atlanta.

You "could" offer them for your event as exhibition as Dave described. However if I remember correctly, for your gig you will need a max boat count in the 230-235 range. Somewhere in there. Based on your expected client/racer it would make more sense to increase the allowed number of gas mono/cat/T boat (or something) than it would to add exhibition classes. Just makes sense. I don't know. Above my pay grade.

Bummer. Sorry, I thought we were offering P Limited as you guys run it, I pulled the wording right off your MMEU site IIRC.

No matter, what I'm asking is why not just make it like the NAMBA Rule? Simple, easy to tech Sunday night at a Record Trial, in the dark, at 40* in the pouring rain!

I think your original proposal had a weight limit correct? To prevent guys from re-winding the arms? I've also heard this doesn't make a huge difference in performance, maybe just reliability? If so why not scrap that part as NAMBA obviously has in the interest of simplicity?

In the end what this all boils down to for us is that we WANT you guys to be part of our Can-Am event. Sure we could probably fill the classes with more LSG and possibly Nitro but having all three power sources is super cool IMHO. It represents what we "do" as a hobby/sport!

ps: "special event" has always been interpreted as anything the host club wants to run at THEIR "International Regatta". They've run Thunderboats at the Nitro Nats, Single F hydro, Twin Hydro (before it was an official class) etc, etc. Your "P Limited" classes were run under this clause I'm sure, the only stipulations I see is that they're run after the "official" classes ('93 Nats in Ft. Wayne ran out of time IIRC) and that you don't award "National Champion" (or US1) trophies.

[Terry Keeley]

Yes Terry they were allowed to include Spec as Special Events or Exhibition Classes as I called them. But were it went wrong is that can?t award Special Events with a National Champion status on the awards. It specifically says that in the rules.
d. The winners at an IMPBA National Regatta will be awarded ?National Champion?. Special
events winners will be awarded First, Second, Third Place.

If "special classes" were awarded "National Champion" trophies that was probably just an unfortunate oversight.

In the "Big Picture" though there was an IMPBA "Fast Electric National Regatta", the first one run in 17 years! Classes were run as per our IMPBA Rule book and special events were run that were clearly defined for all well in advance.

Cudos for the host MMEU club for hosting such a prestigious event. If you came away from that with an award you should be very proud!