(Moved)Another P Limited / Spec motor discussion

[dethow]

PM from Ray (rayzerdesigns) "And again.. you are very one sided.. delusional at best.."

I'm no more one sided than you. You've come here and keep going at it until everyone agrees with your weight issues. All we want is this season to look at things and you are pushing the issue and already talking about what’s going to be written up in a proposal for NAMBA. You seem to be here to try and prematurely win IMPBA guys over to your side of no weight limit.
Per you, you have 2 guys in district 19 whom will be running 1415s (37mmx62mm) this season and you are looking to be the third. You also say you want to prove you can get a 1415 under 268 grams. Great! I applaud all of you for offering some testing to see what can be done and what happens. So why don’t we just see what comes from all that before we start all this “this IS the proposal I’m writing” stuff? Very unnecessary at this point.

Michael (TheShaughnessy),
I don’t think there was any problem with your post #89. You were trying to bring something that you found. No issue. I was talking about the NAMBA rule proposals and how they want to write proposal right away. Sorry to make you feel like you were included in that.

Good discussions so far except for the drama dethow is trying to stir up.

I agree this WILL be a good discussion once there has actually been some racing and testing. To come here and start telling us what they think is right and that's what WILL be in the next NAMBA proposal. That's just an effort to influence and bully. Stirring the pot is all they are doing. If they think they have it right and are ready to write NAMBA proposals, then go do it. The IMPBA guys have been pretty clear that we want this season to race and test. So why is there an effort trying convince everyone of their opinions before the first big race of the season has even had its first heat?


And last...Doug,
Sorry... have a good event. I promise I will not post another thing here in an effort to not cause you reading time or further drama to guys trying to enjoy the event down there.

[dethow]

Michael

Can you give me some more information on the motor and where to get it?

Larry

Here you go Larry. I'm 99% sure this is what he (Mike) found.
High End Technology (HET), Typhoon 650-58. Dims are 36mm x 57.5mm x 250 grams

http://highendrc.com/index_ecat.php?cPath=53_56

[TheShaughnessy]

i guess the cat is out of the bag. Those are the motors I was talking about. I'm running the 1970 kv option. I know it's only a 4 pole but it doesn't seem to be lacking power. I will say that another member had this motor in his boat which is the same as mine just a little bit different layout and hardware. He runs a seaking 160 pro which has a boost feature. I think we had his timing at 15 (from use with another motor) and the boost timing was set to 18.75 if i recall. I'm not 100 percent certain if it was the timing or a possible cooling issue with the motor can nipples being threaded in to far but his motor ran HOT. I wasn't there for his first run with an abc 1716 (I've been told the proboat 1716 is slightly less agressive) but I guess it got pretty hot ( unconfirmed temp). We ran again later in the day and i disabled the boost function and turned down the timing to 7. Motor still ran hot and we propped down to a x440/3 that Darin Jordin did some work on. Boat ran great but when we pulled the tape and took a temp reading ( another member had one of the fancy laser temp guns) I was shocked to see 190 *f at the bearing/ shaft. I almost thought the temp gun was faulty but when we pulled mine , the same area of the motor was only 90f which is fairly consistent with the temps I was seeing while data logging. I also run a little fan i pulled from a car esc i burned up getting wet. It is powered by the BEC, I also tried running without the BEC and used a LiFe pack but didn't notice any significant changes. I haven't tried running without the fan to know for sure if it's making a difference in the temps but it sure makes me feel good.

[rayzerdesigns]

PM from Ray (rayzerdesigns) "And again.. you are very one sided.. delusional at best.."

I'm no more one sided than you. You've come here and keep going at it until everyone agrees with your weight issues. All we want is this season to look at things and you are pushing the issue and already talking about what’s going to be written up in a proposal for NAMBA. You seem to be here to try and prematurely win IMPBA guys over to your side of no weight limit.
Per you, you have 2 guys in district 19 whom will be running 1415s (37mmx62mm) this season and you are looking to be the third. You also say you want to prove you can get a 1415 under 268 grams. Great! I applaud all of you for offering some testing to see what can be done and what happens. So why don’t we just see what comes from all that before we start all this “this IS the proposal I’m writing” stuff? Very unnecessary at this point.

Michael (TheShaughnessy),
I don’t think there was any problem with your post #89. You were trying to bring something that you found. No issue. I was talking about the NAMBA rule proposals and how they want to write proposal right away. Sorry to make you feel like you were included in that.


I agree this WILL be a good discussion once there has actually been some racing and testing. To come here and start telling us what they think is right and that's what WILL be in the next NAMBA proposal. That's just an effort to influence and bully. Stirring the pot is all they are doing. If they think they have it right and are ready to write NAMBA proposals, then go do it. The IMPBA guys have been pretty clear that we want this season to race and test. So why is there an effort trying convince everyone of their opinions before the first big race of the season has even had its first heat?


And last...Doug,
Sorry... have a good event. I promise I will not post another thing here in an effort to not cause you reading time or further drama to guys trying to enjoy the event down there.

I guess we should all bow to you the expert... lol..
and if you read my posts or my pms you should recall I also stated waiting to see how the impba nats turn out..
Some may like the weight some may not..like you said let’s seee where this goes

[Fluid]

PM from Ray....

It is considered bad form to post a PM from another member without permission. There is a reason they are called Private Messages. Please refrain from this behavior in the future.

.

[ray schrauwen]

i guess the cat is out of the bag. Those are the motors I was talking about. I'm running the 1970 kv option. I know it's only a 4 pole but it doesn't seem to be lacking power. I will say that another member had this motor in his boat which is the same as mine just a little bit different layout and hardware. He runs a seaking 160 pro which has a boost feature. I think we had his timing at 15 (from use with another motor) and the boost timing was set to 18.75 if i recall. I'm not 100 percent certain if it was the timing or a possible cooling issue with the motor can nipples being threaded in to far but his motor ran HOT. I wasn't there for his first run with an abc 1716 (I've been told the proboat 1716 is slightly less agressive) but I guess it got pretty hot ( unconfirmed temp). We ran again later in the day and i disabled the boost function and turned down the timing to 7. Motor still ran hot and we propped down to a x440/3 that Darin Jordin did some work on. Boat ran great but when we pulled the tape and took a temp reading ( another member had one of the fancy laser temp guns) I was shocked to see 190 *f at the bearing/ shaft. I almost thought the temp gun was faulty but when we pulled mine , the same area of the motor was only 90f which is fairly consistent with the temps I was seeing while data logging. I also run a little fan i pulled from a car esc i burned up getting wet. It is powered by the BEC, I also tried running without the BEC and used a LiFe pack but didn't notice any significant changes. I haven't tried running without the fan to know for sure if it's making a difference in the temps but it sure makes me feel good.

Running a thrust bearing? They are ducted fan motors and really do need one.

[dethow]

It is considered bad form to post a PM from another member without permission. There is a reason they are called Private Messages. Please refrain from this behavior in the future.

.

No rules on that Fluid. If in individuals don't want their PMs shared then don't PM me. Have conversations in the open. Don't try and be sneaky and say things behind a PM and then get mad at me when I get testy on the thread. Same crap Doug Smock pulled on me back on the other thread... I'm sick of it. Say it in the open or know that it may get shared. Otherwise... don't say it at all.

[Doug Smock]

Smh....

[TRUCKPULL]

Dave let things go for now.

We will see how the Nat's go in MI.

Things here are getting heated, and don't need to be.

Larry

[Doby]

Smh....

I thought I heard something rattling!

[Doby]

Dave let things go for now.

We will see how the Nat's go in MI.

Things here are getting heated, and don't need to be.

Larry

Good advice Larry, pretty sure this is going to turn into a non-issue just like Y2K was!

[dethow]

Dave let things go for now.

We will see how the Nat's go in MI.

Things here are getting heated, and don't need to be.

Larry

Guys, If you read the thread I have been the one saying this is not a conversation to be had right now. If the NAMBA guys fee the need to discuss things now because they want to write a new proposal in the next couple months... go on a NAMBA thread and discuss it.

I didn't start this thread back up and what did wasn't bad info by Mike. But Ray and Darin used that opportunity to push their no weight limit agenda.

Don't see anyone getting on Ray for talking about something personal Terry said to him in private... that Terry probably really didn't want shared.
Don't see anyone asking Ray or Darin to let things go for now. Why should they be allowed to spread their views unchallenged?

I have no problem letting this go and already did. Yesterday. Fliud stepped in regarding PMs and I responded.

[rayzerdesigns]

No one said my thoughts were unchallenged.. it’s slways up for debate..maybe if you opened your eyes you would see that waitingbin seeing how nats go in Michigan..it’s no secret your hate for darin or myself.. obviously because we don’t agree 100% with your idea.. is what it is..everyone sees it for what it is.. and how you act.. have a great day.. and maybe from now on keep my name out of your discussions... on that not hope that all goes well in Michigan.. terry and his crew put on a great race.. and I’m sure this one will not dissapoint.. looking fwd to hearing and seeing the results .. and continuing this discussion and trying to bring the two organizations closer to a limited agreement

[dethow]

Ray, I don't hate you or Darin. You are both probably very nice people.

Yes... it IS true I don't like your lack of understanding that without a weight limit there is no rule that will work. The facts on that will play out as we see what these 1415s can do. And thus, what other copper heavy custom motors cramed into even a 36.3mm a 60mm can will do. A weight limit will stop that from hapening.
Brian Baaus gave enough of an opinion of that subject already that resulted in the size only proposals being pulled. So I think there may be something there. It's not just MY ignorant beliefs.

And I don't understand the thing of waiting to see how the nats go in Michigan. Same motors that were run in last years MI Cup will be at the nats. No changes. There's nothing new happening at the nats that will change anything. The only thing that changes anything is getting some actual water time with the 1415s.
They will not be at the nats.


Look... I AM sorry things got out of hand.

Between what was being said here and what was being said in our PMs... it appeared to me that you were basically pushing a no weight limit agenda before we even had done anything with the 1415s.
And then to top it off you were saying you WILL be writing a proposal after the nats but in ALL REALITY you are looking to make a max length of 60mm.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you are doing everything possible to try and get the NAMBA proposal in first and before the IMPBA guys have had this season (that they want) to test and mule things over.
You state that you want both organizations to have the same rules... as I think all of us do.
So I feel your statements are an attempt to rush a proposal that fits your desires and then try to bully the IMPBA guys into following suit so we can have the same rules. That's what I see and that's why I got frustrated.

I will be writing a proposal after your nationals in Michigan..but in all reality I’m looking at making max length 60mm..keep me informed.. as I would like to see both organizations have same rule set for limited

I wanted to respond to to your statements Ray because I thought it necessary to try and calmly describe why am frustrated. As others are requesting... I'd like to just let this go for now. If you feel the need to defend yourself regarding my feelings on your intentions then so be it.
I've explained my feelings on the matter and I'd just like to get some testing and facts before any of this is discussed further.

[MarkF]

Wow you guys are thinking 1415s? You know Brian B set a fast time at the nats 2 years ago in P sport hydro with a castle 1415 2400kv and an Insane sport hydro. I have the same set up in my insane hydro and it's over 70 mph. That's night and day difference between a stock class and full on P. If you allow 1415 motors you might as well not call it spec. The original spec motors had like 1410 stators in them and now people are trying to shove 1412s and 1415s in the can. This is my problem with the class and I am one for weight limits. And thats weight with the water jacket on. The only people who need to be checked are 1st 2nd and 3rd place at the nats. I think clubs should just run what they like, but at a national event, you need to have rules that can be enforced. Taking your motor out of the boat and collet off takes 5 minutes. It's not rocket science and questions like what about wire length and bullets, well guess what, there part of the motor package. Since most motors come with short wire anyways, I don't see the point of worrying about it.

Mark