Scale

[raptor347]

Two comments.

1. The RCU rules may look ridiculous to the outsider, but it's the only club I know of that fields several heats of FE 1/8 scale at every club race.

2. Just because you have the time/money/interest to build an 1/8 scale doesn't mean you'll be able to drive it well in traffic. Like every other class, you have some great drivers and some at the other end of the bell curve.

[Doug Smock]

[Doby]

[QUOTE=raptor347;683561]Two comments.

1. The RCU rules may look ridiculous to the outsider, but it's the only club I know of that fields several heats of FE 1/8 scale at every club race.

Brian:

I don't think anyone said the rules look ridiculous...and as you said, its working for them..thats what its all about.

Perhaps the venues/clubs that actually have a chance of fielding enough 1/8ths for an particular event should just say damn the rules (IMPBA/NAMBA) and come up with their own to suit the racers /boats that they hope to attract.

Its all about getting boats on the water.

[raptor347]

Ridiculous probably wasn't an appropriate description, certainly very limiting. I'm also not sure they haven't modified the club rules since then. I know they're running HET motors as well.

[don ferrette]

Perhaps the venues/clubs that actually have a chance of fielding enough 1/8ths for an particular event should just say damn the rules (IMPBA/NAMBA) and come up with their own to suit the racers /boats that they hope to attract.

Its all about getting boats on the water.

Damn the rules?? Seriously?? Reality check on aisle one please! While I'm all about getting boats in the water the rules are there for a reason and God forbid there were to be a serious accident while not following "the rules". Just the kind of thing insurance underwriters look for to get out of a claim. Sadly we live in the age of liability and litigation and following the organization approved rules is a must. In the past we have seen litigation from an accident the person suing actually created by not following "the rules". Those rules and the fact the person chose to not follow them is want saved the org from being on the losing end of that. If you don't like the rules then write and submit a proposal to change them. Telling people damn the organization's rules and just make up your own is foolishness at the very least............

[Doby]

Damn the rules?? Seriously?? Reality check on aisle one please! While I'm all about getting boats in the water the rules are there for a reason and God forbid there were to be a serious accident while not following "the rules". Just the kind of thing insurance underwriters look for to get out of a claim. Sadly we live in the age of liability and litigation and following the organization approved rules is a must. In the past we have seen litigation from an accident the person suing actually created by not following "the rules". Those rules and the fact the person chose to not follow them is want saved the org from being on the losing end of that. If you don't like the rules then write and submit a proposal to change them. Telling people damn the organization's rules and just make up your own is foolishness at the very least............

OK, chill pill required.....

From the IMPBA General Rules of Competition section of the Rule Book:

"IV - GENERAL
A. Sanctioned races will be run in accordance with all the rules in the IMPBA Rule Book. If a club wishes
to deviate from these rules, the deviations must be prominently displayed on the race entry form. If a
situation arises forcing a change from the established rules, it must be approved by a majority vote of
the contestants at the drivers' meeting prior to the race. Under no circumstances may a rule be
waived or altered that would reduce the safety of the event."

I read this that as long as safety isn't affected, then anything can be deviated from as long as its on the entry form and nobody has a problem with it.

Don, as you are apparently an IMPBA Tech Hydro guy, I would hope you would have know this. It is after all, in the rule book.

All I'm trying to get at is for both Orgs to have a common set of rules for all classes. It makes more sense and would cause less headaches for anyone wanting to race their boats at both NAMBA and IMPBA events.

Its all about getting boats on the water.


I did find this little tidbit in the NAMBA rules, #2 is of particular concern:

C. ENTRY LIMITATIONS AND QUALIFICATIONS
1. Contestants in all NAMBA competitions will be limited to one boat per type/class in
each event or competition.
2. Two or more entrants may not race the same hull in the same class.

I guess all the NAMBA races over the years that have allowed numerous Motley Crews/Miss Geicos/ Whiplashes/FE 30's/Delta Forces/Revolts/Pusuits etc....to run together in their respective class's (not heats) have been breaking a pretty major rule. It could be applicable 2 of the same 1/8ths show up at a NAMBA race as well.

If a NAMBA club was to follow that rule (like the Michigan guys used to be) then all the MOST POPULAR CLASSES at the past years Michigan Cups would not even have been run.

Boats on the water = common sense.

[T.S.Davis]

Only the safety rules jeopardize insurance coverage Don. Been through that a hundred times now. Guys want it to be different than that but it isn't.

I just passed the the CD test for IMPBA. One of the test questions asks if an LSG27 can bump up to LSG36. LSG 36 has a minimum C.I. in the book yet the 27 boats have been allowed to jump up to LSG36 for years. Done all the time apparently. Don, are you suggesting that in so doing the events were un-insured?

Honestly, after digging into the book and learning, it's not that difficult to propose a rule change. Nothing we're doing is getting boats on the water either way so why not make it as easy as possible to just be correct. We need 5 signatures and a district director or a chairman to send it to the BOD. The BOD decides what to do with it from there. There are multiple options for the BOD from there. It's sort of a sanity check. I like it. Keeps people from just passing something nutty. The BOD can squash a racing class where the boats have torpedo tubes for instance....................that actually sounds fun.

Also, for electric scale, I don't feel registration should be required either. For what? There are no district races for FE to justify the $5 fee for awards. There's no provision for us to run them with nitro. Why register them? It's silly IMO.

All that said, deviations from the book are allowed provided they are made part of the event advertising for the class (so racers know what to expect) AND so long as they don't violate the safety rules. I mean we can't just advertise that we're allowing plutonium cells or some such madness but scales with an open motor spec are just really pretty T sport boats so they aren't a safety issue. We couldn't ignore say the 25 pound limit or anything like that.

[NativePaul]

"2. Two or more entrants may not race the same hull in the same class."
I guess all the NAMBA races over the years that have allowed numerous Motley Crews/Miss Geicos/ Whiplashes/FE 30's/Delta Forces/Revolts/Pusuits etc....to run together in their respective class's (not heats) have been breaking a pretty major rule. It could be applicable 2 of the same 1/8ths show up at a NAMBA race as well.
If a NAMBA club was to follow that rule (like the Michigan guys used to be) then all the MOST POPULAR CLASSES at the past years Michigan Cups would not even have been run.

To me that reads differently to the way you are reading it Doby. I think it means that if you bring a friend/family racing, you can't both run your boat, you running it in heat 1 and then doing a quick battery swap and them running it 5 mins later in heat 2. You have to bow out of the class so he can run your boat, or lend him a spare if you have one, nothing to do with multiple hulls from the same few molds with the same paint jobs.

Doesn't NAMBA's master hull roster prevent 2 of the same 1:8 scales from showing up at the same event?

[T.S.Davis]

Doesn't NAMBA's master hull roster prevent 2 of the same 1:8 scales from showing up at the same event?

No. The roster is just historical data of the full scale boats. Length, width, tunnel widths. That kind of thing. Why they call it a "roster" isn't clear to me.

I believe Paul is reading that "same hull" rule correctly.

[T.S.Davis]

Boats on the water = common sense.

This has always been my thinking too. This hobby being as small as it is we're always going to be walking that fine line between competition and just fun run'n. If we're going to ignore this/that/those/them rules why have any at all? Why have a course? Why call it racing? Let's just chase each other around.

This is the argument. At some point we're not even racing anymore. We'll be dancing around that forever IMO.

In my head, for any given event, put yer finger in the wind and go with what will put butts on the driver stand and boats on the water. Don't create any unnecessary safety issues. Publish accordingly and go race.

[Doby]

To me that reads differently to the way you are reading it Doby. I think it means that if you bring a friend/family racing, you can't both run your boat, you running it in heat 1 and then doing a quick battery swap and them running it 5 mins later in heat 2. You have to bow out of the class so he can run your boat, or lend him a spare if you have one, nothing to do with multiple hulls from the same few molds with the same paint jobs.

Doesn't NAMBA's master hull roster prevent 2 of the same 1:8 scales from showing up at the same event?

See, and I read it the other way..and thats part of the problems with some of the rules...ambiguity.

[T.S.Davis]

I was marked wrong on one of the CD safety questions because the book says something "should" be done but the question asks specifically if it "must" be done.

Should is not must/shall. Semantics matter sometimes. Subtle but there is a difference.

http://www.grammar-quizzes.com/modal3.html

Makes me question other places the book uses "should". Are those in fact required or just recommended practices? I can tell you with absolute certainty that some are routinely ignored as suggestions at multiple venue I've raced at.

[NativePaul]

I am not after the rules as such, but I am curious to know what scale racers think of fictitious boats. I want to make a Tide hydro, but I know there is already a Tide here in the UK, and while I love the boat I would like it to be unique just in case we met up for an informal race sometime. My racing colours are very similar to Miss Bardahl, so I would like to do that scheme, but I wonder if it would be frowned upon to make an early '90s modern Miss Bardahl that never existed?

[Doby]

I personally like the idea of fictitious paint schemes on boats

But....that would be against the rules here...not sure about across the pond though.

[don ferrette]

Only the safety rules jeopardize insurance coverage Don. Been through that a hundred times now. Guys want it to be different than that but it isn't.

True to a point, but this wasn't a selective thing rather just the broad brush stroke of the statement of "damn the rules". But hey let's play devil's advocate for a minute........

So a club says "damn the rules" and decides 12S is ok for a class. Not really a safety thing as plenty of boaters that "don't race" run 12S right? So let's say there's a bad accident and someone gets seriously injured by a 12S powered boat. The first thing an insurance underwriter will look at is a way to get out of a claim. Guess what? By organization rules that wasn't a legally recognized boat, what was it doing running in a sanctioned INSURED event? Seem far fetched? Sadly it's not as I've seen and had enough experience with these bottom feeders to know that they will do anything to get out of paying a claim. Common sense would dictate that it being a 10 or 12S boat wouldn't have prevented the accident but that's not how it would work in the legal world. It sucks but it is what it is............