SEI question for IMPBA

[longballlumber]

What are the chances that someone is going to "walkup" to A RACE that is interested in "giving it a try" that has had zero contact with a club, a club member, didn't see a flyer stating that it was a sanctioned event etc...

I still stand by my statement above...

I will ask the same question here that I sent Terry personally... Is there someone that is being affected by the IMPBA SEI Rule? If so, put them in contact with me, and I will do what I can to help.



Fact of the matter is; (only applying logic here) I find it hard to believe that someone would spend hundreds, possibly thousands, of dollars on a race boat AND show up to a racing event with no idea the racing event requires some sort of pre-registration, membership to participate, contact with another boater, contact with a boat club, let alone have a legal hull/motor combo that correctly fits in a class.

Since this is such a big issue in the world of model boating: Terry - how do you handle "walk ups" to our own practice nights? Is a practice day considered an "event" that will allow them to pay the NAMBA SEI so they can try it out? From my recollection we've suggested they need to be a NAMBA card carrying member.

[T.S.Davis]

Terry - how do you handle "walk ups" to our own practice nights?

Yep, we've done this a bunch of times where guys paid SEI so they can try it. We don't really have to do that. We do it so that we don't get in trouble with the city. Don't think that has happened this season though.

This isn't a big hairy deal Mike. It started off just a question. The degree of pissed off that you are that I asked makes it a big hairy deal. I asked, said it was insane and stated why I thought it was.

Rules need tweaking from time to time. Does this one? IDK. It's way above my pay grade. The name of this subsection ends with the word "discussion". Is that allowed?

My inspiration for asking at all was because Ty has miss placed his NAMBA card. So it was going to effect him. Why does he need his card? Still makes no sense. To attend an IMPBA event one time he has to prove that he is a member of another organization. We're getting his card replaced.

Turns out he came become a junior IMPBA member for a mere $10 if a parent is a member. Did not know that. That's an awesome rule. NAMBA is much higher.

"Geeze chill out". Yeah, let's.

[oscarel]

My inspiration for asking at all was because Ty has miss placed his NAMBA card. So it was going to effect him. Why does he need his card? Still makes no sense. To attend an IMPBA event one time he has to prove that he is a member of another organization. We're getting his card replaced.

Looking up his membership on NAMBA website isn't proof enough? It's kept up-to-date.

[T.S.Davis]

That's tough on race day at a site.

[Doby]

I'm going flying today :)

[oscarel]

That's tough on race day at a site.

Really? Small pdf download to a smart phone or laptop and you have all currently paid members.

No membership no insurance. Is NAMBA any different?

Just my observations, but I don't see that you have to be a member of another organization before getting SEI via NAMBA. Also, looks like the sactioning body dictates who's insurance is in effect. Don't shoot me, just my observations...
NAMBA RULEBOOK section 9
A. GENERAL
1. NAMBA insurance is provided to members upon payment of the appropriate fees.
2. NAMBA membership provides coverage for the calendar year. It is not prorated.
3. Single event members are covered to the same extent as full members during the
event for which they have paid the single event membership fee.
B. LIABILITY AND PROPERTY DAMAGE INSURANCE
1. NAMBA insurance provides the member with $1,000,000 per occurrence/$2,000,000
aggregate in liability and property damage coverage in the event that they should be
involved in an accident in which a spectator is injured or damage is done to a
NAMBA insured site. NAMBA insurance also includes a $1,000,000 umbrella policy
to provide additional coverage per occurrence.
2. NAMBA property damage insurance does not cover damage done to another model
boat in the normal course of running.
3. NAMBA liability insurance is primary coverage.
4. NAMBA liability insurance is for both the individual member and the owner of
insured sites. To ensure coverage, NAMBA members may only participate in running
boats at NAMBA insured sites.
5. NAMBA liability/property damage insurance is in effect any time a member is
running a boat at a NAMBA insured site, not just during sanctioned events, as long as
the member is observing all the NAMBA safety rules.
6. A member is not covered under NAMBA insurance when participating in an event
which is sanctioned by another organization which also provides liability and
property damage insurance for its members. This restriction applies whether this other
insurance is of a primary or secondary nature.
7. NAMBA liability/property damage insurance has a $500 deductible. This deductible
may be paid by NAMBA.

[Chilli]

No membership no insurance. Is NAMBA any different?

It's not an outdated rule it protects the organization and the membership.

There is some discussion at the BOD level about a small fee to allow a "walk up" to participate at a club level event. However, the participant will not be allowed in the hot pits and must be accompanied by a member at all times. Nothing was finalized but IIRC when it is it will go out to the membership for a vote. Look for it in the Dec. Roostertail.

We would love to work on a demo day with all the local hobby shops at the pond but the required IMPBA membership is the only thing holding us back so this would be great. As for someone showing up at the pond at a district race to try it out?? Forget about it. We had a guy join the IMPBA and run a cheap gas boat with zero pond time at one of our races. It was a total disaster. He was totally frustrated because his stuff wouldnt work, the racers trying to help him couldnt because they couldnt figure out his cheap crappy motor. Plus it took away time from them working their own boats. I think we saw the guy once after that and then never again...

[Doug Smock]

Just my observations, but I don't see that you have to be a member of another organization before getting SEI via NAMBA.

All I know for certain is that I had to show my IMPBA card at a NAMBA race in Brandon Fla. this year.

[T.S.Davis]

All I know for certain is that I had to show my IMPBA card at a NAMBA race in Brandon Fla. this year.

Yeah, there's no reason for that. Someone didn't know.

Doug, I am curious about the insurance issue thing though. This:

6. A member is not covered under NAMBA insurance when participating in an event
which is sanctioned by another organization which also provides liability and
property damage insurance for its members. This restriction applies whether this other
insurance is of a primary or secondary nature.

.......sounds like your NAMBA insurance is no good when you our at an IMPBA event.

BUT! The IMPBA form makes it sound as though you're not applying for temporary insurance like NAMBA. You applying for temporary membership. You mentioned "no membership no insurance". If that be the case, then the temp membership renders you insured by IMPBA. So then what difference (to IMPBA) does it make if an applicant is a NAMBA member? Is it to get to the insurance? I still don't understand why the requirement. What's the benefit to IMPBA?

Disclaimer.......this is not a big deal to the racing community. No racers were harmed by asking this question. I'm asking on behalf of racing at large so that in the event that someone needs to use the insurance we aren't confused and having each organizations' underwriter saying "nope, not us".

[ray schrauwen]

Lol.... At least you only pay the exact amount. Us Canucks pay extra because of the exchange... It's all good. Ya gots to pay to play!

[rightturnonly]

Terry,

I'm interested in this insurance issue. Since Atlanta is my closest place to race and it's IMPBA I've wondered about how the insurance works. From what I've read I believe even though I'm NAMBA I wouldn't be covered by NAMBA insurance at a IMPBA event or even a non NAMBA approved site. So, running at my local pond is not covered since it's not a NAMBA approved site. I think it was covered in one of the propwash articles from either this year or last. For my own piece of mind, I'd just join IMPBA to make sure I'm covered and did last year when I planned on going to an IMPBA event. I'd hate for one of us to have an accident and then find out we aren't covered..


John

[T.S.Davis]

Finally got an answer that makes any sense. Not quoting direct but I'll summarize.

The intent/hope is that an applicant has at least read a rule book from a boating organization. While this is less user friendly than the NAMBA approach it does provide a better level of protection to the organization and fellow boaters. There's the benefit. It is NOT in any way an attempt to use NAMBA insurance at an IMPBA event. Once granted temporary membership you are in effect covered by the IMPBA policy for that event.

The BOD is currently working on something to accommodate attendees that want to "give it a try" just as I had describe. Those would be under strict regulations though. That will require a vote of the board. My understanding at least.

So apparently someone besides me thinks there are people that might show up and want to "give it a try". Think wives, kids, friend of a racer, stray vagrant, train hobo. That kind of thing.

[NativePaul]

I think Terry's "rant" was pretty funny, and I'm sure was meant to be non offensive tongue in cheek humour whilst raising a valid point.

For what it is worth the MPBA, the UK Model Power boat Association, who run all UK FE racing and insure us, will insure a non member for their first 2 MPBA events before they have to join. Electra who host the race series around south east England where I live give you free entry to your first 2 classes. so a sport boater can get a feel for racing at 2 events totally free of chargeWe want to make it as easy and cheap as possible for people to give it a try, we do get walk ins from time to time, not often but we do all we can to expand FE racing and locally we let them race or lend them legal gear even if they are not 100% legal. If you contact us in advance we can even lend you a legal boat so train hobos can give it a go too. You don't get points towards our race series until they are members though, and you can't take the big trophies at the nationals, but we do have a trophy for best non member at the nats.

[Chilli]

So apparently someone besides me thinks there are people that might show up and want to "give it a try". Think wives, kids, friend of a racer, stray vagrant, train hobo. That kind of thing.

Actually in the IMPBA, spouses and children under 18 can get added to a family membership for $10 a year. Junior membership for kids under 18 is also $10 a year. Vagrants and hobo's have to pay full price for now.

[JUICE]

For guys that "just want to check it out" at a cheap price but protect the org, there is a proposal in the IMPBA Sept Roostertail.