IMPBA D1 - Northern Lights MBC - 2016 "THE CAN-AM" Aug 6 & 7

[T.S.Davis]

We were gyp'd. 3 of our team members left without a word. That was 1200 potential points. ugh

[Terry Keeley]

Do you guys have the awards presentation photos?

They'll be published in the upcoming IMPBA Roostertail. If you want something for your own consumption shoot me an email at [email protected] and lemme know what you want. Also, our "real" photographer got some great action shots, just waiting for them in the mail.

We were gyp'd. 3 of our team members left without a word. That was 1200 potential points. ugh

Yup, that could have made the difference. As they say "there's always next year".

[T.S.Davis]

We talked about that some Terry. You guys asked about suggestions. We had a few. Nothing monumental and nothing to bother you with here. We'll talk about them later on.

Get some rest sir. You guys all earned it.

[Terry Keeley]

We talked about that some Terry. You guys asked about suggestions. We had a few. Nothing monumental and nothing to bother you with here. We'll talk about them later on.

Get some rest sir. You guys all earned it.

No worries, I'm just about caught up. Here is just as good a place!

So we can avoid the paperwork nightmare we had this year, next year we are going to insist on either pre-pay via PayPal or pay in person (or get a buddy to pay for you) by 5pm on Friday. That way I can shuffle the entries in the laptop and print a good set of heats Fri. nite. Contestants will get their heat sheets Sat. am.

Also, depending on the numbers, we may run three heats then the top six only in each class for a 4th round, we'll see.

We're also thinking about a shootout format where the best boats go together in the next round, but I'll havta look at that closer.

So many ways to improve...

Your turn!

[T.S.Davis]

We've done the shootout thing. You have to shuffle the heats manually after the third round. Racers will want to be able to run that 4th round even if they're out of the podium. All about the joy of playing toy boats.

On the CanAm teams it might be worth while to tell the group to withdraw their name from the team and have you draw another name if they know they aren't staying both days. Sometimes you don't know your not staying. Call that an emergency and you could still draw a new name. We didn't even know some of the team was gone.

The Onieda cup scoring was fine by us but the number of boats tie breaker wasn't expressed to us. Not the end of the world but Todd was tied and I was 100 points off. We were proceeding as if we might tie and all three names would make the trophy. The boat count makes sense bu that's not what were told. You could even consider just awarding say 19 points to a racer for winning a 19 boat class and 17 points for winning a 17 boat class. Do that for 2 classes each racer. That way you won't have someone win that chose easy classes. I cleaned up in P mono but that wasnt nearly as tough as Randy or Todd's wins IMO. Winning the Onieda cup should be a monumental task.

Trophies. I class makes the cut at 4 boats. Racers commit 100's of dollars to travel. At least spring for first, second, and third trophies. We buy trophies too and have an idea what they cost. You gave trophies for B mono and B hydro which ran only 3 boats every round but for T sport, P mono, and Q sport only a first place trophy. Poor Tom had a horrible weekend. He finally cobbled some boats together and finished some heats. Clawed his way back to second and received no trophy because there were only 3 boats at the end. Sorta feeds into our second class citizen complex when nitro gets trophies and electric doesn't.

[Terry Keeley]

We've done the shootout thing. You have to shuffle the heats manually after the third round. Racers will want to be able to run that 4th round even if they're out of the podium. All about the joy of playing toy boats.

On the CanAm teams it might be worth while to tell the group to withdraw their name from the team and have you draw another name if they know they aren't staying both days. Sometimes you don't know your not staying. Call that an emergency and you could still draw a new name. We didn't even know some of the team was gone.

The Onieda cup scoring was fine by us but the number of boats tie breaker wasn't expressed to us. Not the end of the world but Todd was tied and I was 100 points off. We were proceeding as if we might tie and all three names would make the trophy. The boat count makes sense bu that's not what were told. You could even consider just awarding say 19 points to a racer for winning a 19 boat class and 17 points for winning a 17 boat class. Do that for 2 classes each racer. That way you won't have someone win that chose easy classes. I cleaned up in P mono but that wasnt nearly as tough as Randy or Todd's wins IMO. Winning the Onieda cup should be a monumental task.

Trophies. I class makes the cut at 4 boats. Racers commit 100's of dollars to travel. At least spring for first, second, and third trophies. We buy trophies too and have an idea what they cost. You gave trophies for B mono and B hydro which ran only 3 boats every round but for T sport, P mono, and Q sport only a first place trophy. Poor Tom had a horrible weekend. He finally cobbled some boats together and finished some heats. Clawed his way back to second and received no trophy because there were only 3 boats at the end. Sorta feeds into our second class citizen complex when nitro gets trophies and electric doesn't.

Thanks for replying, when we say we want to hear any and all suggestions to host a better, safer event for our guests we really mean it.

The issue I see with re-drawing names is that one side or the other (us proper Canucks would never do that of course ) could just have the weaker guys say they're not staying so draw again until you end up with a "dream team" of racers. Drawing another name on Sunday when you're trying to finish the race, plus the scoring complications makes that a difficult option also if someone leaves early.

We should have made it clearer in the case of a tie for the Oneida Cup what would happen, we discussed it back in '10 when we brought it out of "retirement" but never figured it would happen, especially with perfect scores. We followed the lead from the IMPBA's "President's Cup" which is high point for two boats at the Nats but with a complicated weighting system. Don't know what we'll do if two guys tie with classes that have the same number of boats, but we should talk about it as it could conceivably happen. Not sure who told you what but I even had to be reminded of how a tie is broken.

The trophies got messed up because of late scratched entries. I printed the heat sheets up Thurs. night so I could give guys their heats on Fri., big mistake. We had seven no shows for 22 boats, that meant a lot of pen and ink corrections that of course weren't in the scoring s/w. When I awarded the trophies I simply looked at the sheet and if I saw four names I only gave out a first place trophy. You're right, B mono and B hydro originally had 5 entries but one scratch in each meant only four ran. Trust me when I say it wasn't a nitro vs FE thing at all. Matter of fact it's us nitro guys that are getting the complex lately, we only had 27 entries(16%), FE had 53 (32%), LSG 74 (44%) and Open was 12 (7%). In any case I really don't think giving three trophies for a four boat class is worth it, not just for sound event finances but having only one guy NOT get a trophy kinda smacks of the "participation awards" I hear kids get these days, yuk! I think next year we may have a five boat limit to make a class anyway so only two not getting an award isn't so bad I guess.

[Todd Fleury]

Terry,
When I asked you about what happens in a tie for the Oneida Cup, you told me both names would go on the trophy. I'm not upset, but I did drive my butt off to win all of my heats and drive clean.
Todd

[T.S.Davis]

Terry, all constructive. Promise. Not whining.

You could ask guys when they check in. "Staying both days?". Then they would be less likely to try to selectively decline. Still doesn't eliminate the possibility though.

Another idea might be to let each country chose a team. Each would have the freedom to make a superteam. Sort of a best of the best thinking. Say 5 racers covering 2 or 3 separate classes. Talk about a challenge! I totally understand if you guys want to not mess with it. Works fine as is. Just sucked that we got hosed when some disappeared.

Another odd thing was the scoring on the teams. We were told its your best class totals. That's not what was done. Scoring was your best heat from each round regardless of which class it was. I'm not sure if that makes any difference but was confusing. I know it helped our team in one instance.

On the trophy thing.........if it was my call (LOL) .......I wouldn't get hung up on the budget concern. If the dollars are an issue, make the minimum boat count the 4 boats but make it clear that it's a prepaid minimum. Then your trophies are paid for even if they bail. The flier said 4 boat minimum. You had that for B hydro for instance but no more than 3 hut the water for any heat. Flier says trophies for 1,2,3. It doesn't say "unless someone scratches".

Competing at a travel race requires the commitment of resources and a certain level of dedication. It isn't quite the same as kids getting a participation trophy for their parents putting them out on the field. Those racers made a commitment to attend my race. I go out of my way to worship them. Worship is too strong a word but you know what I mean. I feel we owe them a trip home with a big grin and maybe a plaque to remember their journey. Plus, when their wive's ask hahaha...........

It's hard hosting these things. By the time the race actually starts you already feel like you were shot out of a canon. It's impossible to remember every little nuance and then communicate it. Keep up the good work Terry.

[Terry Keeley]

Terry,
When I asked you about what happens in a tie for the Oneida Cup, you told me both names would go on the trophy. I'm not upset, but I did drive my butt off to win all of my heats and drive clean.
Todd

Yup, I remember that now, I was wrong. Sorry.

Posting perfect scores with two boats is an amazing accomplishment, cutting one buoy would have changed the outcome for either of you!

[Terry Keeley]

Terry, all constructive. Promise. Not whining.

You could ask guys when they check in. "Staying both days?". Then they would be less likely to try to selectively decline. Still doesn't eliminate the possibility though.

Another idea might be to let each country chose a team. Each would have the freedom to make a superteam. Sort of a best of the best thinking. Say 5 racers covering 2 or 3 separate classes. Talk about a challenge! I totally understand if you guys want to not mess with it. Works fine as is. Just sucked that we got hosed when some disappeared.

Another odd thing was the scoring on the teams. We were told its your best class totals. That's not what was done. Scoring was your best heat from each round regardless of which class it was. I'm not sure if that makes any difference but was confusing. I know it helped our team in one instance.

On the trophy thing.........if it was my call (LOL) .......I wouldn't get hung up on the budget concern. If the dollars are an issue, make the minimum boat count the 4 boats but make it clear that it's a prepaid minimum. Then your trophies are paid for even if they bail. The flier said 4 boat minimum. You had that for B hydro for instance but no more than 3 hut the water for any heat. Flier says trophies for 1,2,3. It doesn't say "unless someone scratches".

Competing at a travel race requires the commitment of resources and a certain level of dedication. It isn't quite the same as kids getting a participation trophy for their parents putting them out on the field. Those racers made a commitment to attend my race. I go out of my way to worship them. Worship is too strong a word but you know what I mean. I feel we owe them a trip home with a big grin and maybe a plaque to remember their journey. Plus, when their wive's ask hahaha...........

It's hard hosting these things. By the time the race actually starts you already feel like you were shot out of a canon. It's impossible to remember every little nuance and then communicate it. Keep up the good work Terry.

All good ideas, and again we encourage this kind of discussion. Anything to make our event safer and more enjoyable for our guests is welcome!

I just can't see how doing anything but a random drawing for Can-Am team members will keep it "random". Asking if guys are going to stay or picking team members etc. takes the "randomness" out of it, which is half the fun. We did calculate the scores incorrectly and used the high score for each round as you pointed out, I re-calculated the scores taking the "final" high score for each team member and the tally was Canada 9900 vs USA 9288. We'll be sure to do this correctly as stated on our flyer next year. With Team Canada winning all three years we've held the competition I'm starting to wonder if you're messing with our "Barney the Beaver" may be generating some bad karma! Maybe you guys need a mascot for us to mess with so you have a better chance of winning!

We've discussed the trophy situation amongst our club members and the concensus is to stick with what we're doing. It's not just a financial decision but also for the reasons already discussed. Next year though we'll have a better handle on the scratches so there won't be the mixup that happened this year. We'll correct the flyer.

On another note I learned some more FE stuff today talking to Larry Jaques. I didn't realize you guys ran the same boat in Offshore and P Limited Mono. He was saying with only one heat in between the two you didn't have enough time to cool your equipment. Duly noted I told him, you won't have that issue next year!

[T.S.Davis]

Some did that with the offshore and mono. Mike Ball was running his cat in both. Its always an issue and tough for those trying to do both with a single boat. Do what you can but at some point it has to be our problem not yours. Tyler and I use different boats for each.

[longballlumber]

Some did that with the offshore and mono. Mike Ball was running his cat in both. Its always an issue and tough for those trying to do both with a single boat. Do what you can but at some point it has to be our problem not yours. Tyler and I use different boats for each.

For what it's worth, I doubt that I will ever do that again at a race like this. I agree with TD; at some point it has to be our problem not yours. Its a compromise for all involved.

[T.S.Davis]

We run into this trying to schedule P mono, P limited mono, and P offshore, P limited offshore. One boat could fit all those with a motor, battery, prop swap. Eventual we have to just force guys to choose between them or get more boats. I like boats so I'll git more.

[Terry Keeley]

Here's a link to a bunch of great photos Paul Charles took at our 2016 Can-Am, if you want a copy of anything please send me a msg. Enjoy!

http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/tkee1/library/Can-Am%202016%20by%20Paul%20Charles?sort=3&page=1