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Noisy person -
curious how does running ovals change anything? cornering actually cools a motor and esc (unless you're WOT cornering). The nitro guys have problems with over-cooling their cylinders in corners.
but I digress, I was assured this, exploding a boat, for "bashing" not for racing.Comment
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I had the same experience as fweasel with my first Hobbyking Panther packs. The original Panther Graphene packs were the only batts that could hold up on my 155MPH dedicated speed model RC helicopter. Mine has a 14HP outrunner setup spinning a 5ft diameter rotor at 2800 RPM, and pulling long 200A pulls across the sky in both directions just like SAW boat racing. Any other packs at the time would drop 300 RPM under load due to voltage sag, but the Panthers maintained exactly my set governed RPM under load.
I still have a couple old packs left that still work well, but the newer packs capabilities are nowhere near the performance of the originals. One of the reasons the RCG guys have to keep testing every year. What Lipo is king this year may not be over time as the cell quality is allowed to fall off.
The great thing, at least in my experience is my SMC packs perform every bit as good as my original Panther packs did, but weigh far less as the HK graphene packs were much heavier than other lipos of the same capacity, so its a win/win in my caseLast edited by Xrayted; 06-30-2023, 03:33 PM.Comment
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Couple more things of note....
Those Maxamps may have performed well because they're new. Cells do fatigue with use. Especially under high amps. Your former cells could be tired.
On the 6s vs 4s / rpms achieved thing.... The UL was designed by a friend. It was intended to be a 4s boat that could oval race. Then marketing just hadddd to have 6s. Cuz.....well 6s!, everybody wants 6s!, why not 6s!, just put 6s on the box, will it run on 6s!, how fast can we put on the box if we go to 6s? They were told to prop down if they just gotta do 6s.
Sure you can run high rpm. Been there, done that, we've got jackets. Think about it like this though. I can drive my Honda right up to the red line. Probably over it. Likely repeatedly too. That motor is so smooth. The question is, in doing so will my Honda last longer than driving it as intended or less? I suspect the failure may come a tic sooner. We can DO anything. Just gotta be aware of risks and decide for ourselves if they're worth it.
There's no 100% "must be done" way to play with our boats. Some guys get really annoyed if their opinion isn't taken as gospel. That in itself ........is annoying. hahaNoisy personComment
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This is super not true. Water flow reduces as we travel slower and amperage is off the chart in the turns. Especially post apex. Most of the heat build up happens there. It's like constant acceleration for the exit. Wish I had a data log handy. The corners are batty power wise.Noisy personComment
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To reach his own. I thoroughly enjoy the SAW run challenge since there are no racing clubs here. And I have setup my boats and run laps. No doubt running laps takes more skills. Add racing to that and it must be off the charts fun!
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It's so fun. It's the people for sure. Can't say enough about the humans I've met racing. Doesn't seem to matter much where you go either. Just good people.
The oval does present it's own challenges. Hardest part is learning to drive small. Over compensation creates more problems than anything.Noisy personComment
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My take on running laps, being harder on your setup than straight running: when you turn your rudder, it basically creates major drag. The boat ideally wants to go straight, as the thrust from the prop is in-line (longitudinal) with the hull. The rudder forces the boat to change direction, and the added resistance puts more load on your setup.
As mentioned, the motor spins more continuous. Some boats can basically keep the throttle pinned throughout the oval running. Compare that with a sprint which may take 10 seconds and then the throttle is left off.
I like both disciplines and I am learning about the setup differences each time I take out my boats [emoji106]Comment
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I just got around to checking out the 2023 lipo ratings. Correct me if I'm wrong, I have the MaxAmps 5200mAh, 175C lipos and I'm seeing they are #5 on the list at 100 amps and #6 at 175 amps. That was on the first test that looked like weight vs output, not the overall comparison. They fall to #24 & #23 respectively on the overall comparison. Admittedly I don't fully understand those charts, but does that reflect my results? In layman's terms they have very good energy density?Sammyha, check out the first page of the Lipo testing thread link below that has been running for more than a decade. These guys do yearly controlled load testing of a variety of packs due to the fact that C ratings are known to be marketing nonsense, and the maxAmps brand has been the running "joke" of the lipo world the entire decade they have been testing them. Thunder Power is also right there with them, and they have the same high price/garbage quality, preying upon the uninformed that will believe the marketing hype
They are bottom of the barrel, barely 15C garbage packs that are being sold at 2-3 X what far better lipo brands out there are sold for. The results on the first page are always kept up to date with the latest load testing, broken down into weight categories and what load each pack could handle without failing completely.
The Max Amps 5000 mAh pack lasted literally ONE second under a 125A load before the voltage sagged down to 3.7V per cell, and consistently comes into last place in their various testing. 125A currents are nothing for FE boats which usually average much higher currents. Compare that same 125A constant load test to an SMC pack that held for a whopping 71 seconds at that same load, and for less than half the MA pack cost!
SMC is the current best performing lipo you can buy today, is US owned and based with actual customer service directly from the owner. Even "if" the MaxAmps was exactly as good as SMC (its nowhere close), you still paid 3 times as much as a same pack from SMC with much better performance would have cost you.
https://www.smc-racing.com/index.php...ry&path=67_119
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Yes, the RCG guys do multiple charts/test score because there is no one thing that is most important to everyone. Some dont need huge amp capability and may be looking for the best energy density per gram of pack weight, or a host of other variables, so you can look through the charts and see what is most important to you. They typically only test the larger 5000 or so mAh packs because the author of that discussion and testing is a EDF jet guy, and they pull huge amps just like our boats do
So like him, most of us want packs that handle the excessive abuse the RC boats will place on a pack vs the 80 YO guys at the flying club just cruising around all day pulling no more than 10C on their planes. They will tell you ANY pack is fantastic because they dont stress them out enough to know any better. That's how Thunder Power managed to convince people to pay $200+ per pack for what were actually terrible quality lipos for years. There was no testing, and the old guys all swore by them because they didn't fly in any way to know any better
Your MaAmps 5200, 175C lipo took only 85 seconds at 100A load in testing to sag voltage down to 3.7V per cell, which is essentially a spent pack. 100A is nothing for FE boat! My smallest mono hits 300+ amp peaks all day long and averages current draw of 150A for the entire run, so a battery that can barely handle 100A for 80 seconds isn't going to cut it at all and wont even last a race.
We all should know that all lipos use inflated, fake C ratings but 175C!!!! Its a laughable joke far above any of the other vendors out there considering that would mean you could pull 910 amps according to their claims. The pack and its wiring would be molten lava, so their level of made up marking should be insulting to actual adults considering their primary target audience are teenage RC car guys.
I'm a RC heli guy too which can easily pull up in the 200A range, but not nearly as high current averages as boats do during the entire run. In that case a lighter pack high on the list of the 100-125 continuous range is more than enough for me, but I need a pack that is the biggest boss there is when it comes to handling high amps for my boats. and currently SMC has been #1 in that testing for the least couple years
Even if nothing else matters, just take a look at the packs on the charts that are right next to the MaX Amps values ands compare the prices of them. The Liperior Air pack from RCbattery.com tested pretty much identical to the MaxAmps pack performance wise, but it only cost $80 instead of $240Last edited by Xrayted; 07-10-2023, 06:49 PM.Comment
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