A pair of 138's

[worriedsick4u]

He got a good deal on them, and they are a good fit for the boat, if you want ultimate power. Running 3060s in a MHZ 138 is comparable to running 3040s in a HPR 135 (As you know the HPR is considerably smaller). Steve's boat has the potential to run nice and cool at over 100 mph on 12s, but over 125mph on 14s. He literally has the fastest 138 on the planet, he just isn't pushing it that hard.

To be more precise, I'm scared!

[iridebikes247]

with the hpr to mhz they pull around the same amps with the same props going about the same speed with the same loaded rpm. Around 170-190 amps when running WOT for a few seconds, boats are just about identical in weight so I feel like power systems are pretty interchangeable. The mystic gets more lift making it easier to push right? I might add the spikes we can't compare as chris has mgm controller I have swordfish no comparison in how ferociously the mgm flows electricity.

I would love to see it run 14s. Jurgen Ziesmer pulled 126 mph with a 138 mystic and lehner 3040s, no idea if it exploded though lol.


3060 could push anything in that hull would love to see data logging from a 14s run probably some unreal hp in a spike

[keithbradley]

with the hpr to mhz they pull around the same amps with the same props going about the same speed with the same loaded rpm. Around 170-190 amps when running WOT for a few seconds, boats are just about identical in weight so I feel like power systems are pretty interchangeable. The mystic gets more lift making it easier to push right? I might add the spikes we can't compare as chris has mgm controller I have swordfish no comparison in how ferociously the mgm flows electricity.

I would love to see it run 14s. Jurgen Ziesmer pulled 126 mph with a 138 mystic and lehner 3040s, no idea if it exploded though lol.

3060 could push anything in that hull would love to see data logging from a 14s run probably some unreal hp in a spike

Mike,

If you use the same size motor and prop, a 115 will take "about the same" amount of power that a 135 will at a modest speed, if they are both set up correctly for the combo...that's not really a relevant comparison, especially when you use the word "about".

Why would you think that more lift would make a hull easier to push? Maybe you're thinking of the the gasser guys that are struggling to get a boat out of the water? This is not an issue we face in FE with either of these hulls.
Lift is a form of drag. In the wet gasser's case it may be a lessor evil, but it's still drag. A wider cat is just not going to be as slippery as a narrower cat. The MHZ hulls are without a doubt harder to push than the HPR hulls. I think they handle better, but a small price is paid at 120mph+. My 114 was pretty easy to get to 110-115mph, but it started getting a little tricky over 120mph. Things change at higher speeds.

Also, Steve's 138 is running 108mph at under 35,000!
Just imagine how much is left!

[keithbradley]

Steve,

What did you put behind the carbon on the MGMs? And...how do you like them so far?

[worriedsick4u]

Steve,

What did you put behind the carbon on the MGMs? And...how do you like them so far?

I used a piece of colored vinyl. You have to be careful removing the CF as the water cooler is 2 parts sealed together by the same bolts that hold the cf in place. I love the MGM's. Now that I'm familiar with them I am more comfortable pushing them. Expensive as you know but worth the money. The temps on them at 108mph were barely 105*.

[iridebikes247]

By about I mean't within 8 ounces of each other so pretty close for 26lb boats. I spent time on hydroworld for awhile where ralf moser and jurgen were posting. real issue was weight and keeping it on the water for 110+ mph, the 3040s never exposed any weaknesses to them at least.

As far as the amps I posted above 135 vs 138 I do see relevance as they required the same amount of energy to maintain their top speed.

Its kinda interesting but mbp built a few mystics a 138 and also a 185 with leopard motors. Same motors escs and props end result they were within 3 mph of each other but the 185 didn't look so good it took flight quite a few times, motors probably didn't last too long. I didn't ask steve about his intentions with the boat maybe the goal was to have the fastest one at some point down the road? biggest motor and esc combo I've seen in the boat, that'll definitely pique someones curiosity.

[worriedsick4u]

By about I mean't within 8 ounces of each other so pretty close for 26lb boats. I spent time on hydroworld for awhile where ralf moser and jurgen were posting. real issue was weight and keeping it on the water for 110+ mph, the 3040s never exposed any weaknesses to them at least.

As far as the amps I posted above 135 vs 138 I do see relevance as they required the same amount of energy to maintain their top speed.

Its kinda interesting but mbp built a few mystics a 138 and also a 185 with leopard motors. Same motors escs and props end result they were within 3 mph of each other but the 185 didn't look so good it took flight quite a few times, motors probably didn't last too long. I didn't ask steve about his intentions with the boat maybe the goal was to have the fastest one at some point down the road? biggest motor and esc combo I've seen in the boat, that'll definitely pique someones curiosity.

I believe I originally told Keith I wanted a 90 mph boat. But we all know how quickly things change. My intentions were not to do 108 with room to spare, I promise you that.

[keithbradley]

Mike,

I think you're missing the point here...

I'm not arguing that every 138 needs 3060s...I would also never say that a 135 needs 3040s...both are about the largest possible motor I would run in each hull.

I've went over 100mph with 36mmx60mm Chinese motors. You don't need huge motors to go fast. We didn't put these in Steve's boat because it's the only way to go 108mph. To be honest I think I could get 108mph out of a 40mm motor in that hull. The difference would be that the 40mm motor would have a harder time doing it's job, where the 3060s are hardly breaking a sweat. We originally planned on 3040s, which are still very powerful motors, but we could get the brand new 3060s for the same price, so we opted for the longer motors.

Based on the speeds that Steve is getting out of this, it's proving to be a very strong combo, and resulting in a few more MPH than a 3040 of the same theoretical RPM, meaning higher efficiency.

I have a pair of 3060s going into a 185 I'm building as well. I could also go with 3040s in that cat and still reach the goal speed, but why tie my hands when there's plenty of room?

There are plenty of larger ESC and motor combos out there also Mike. There's a guy on KBB (I think I saw his thread here at one point too) building a 185 with 3080s and MGM 400/63 ESCs...MUCH larger combo than this one!

[iridebikes247]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I like higher rpm setups with smaller props. I've run higher rpm smaller props, and lower rpm big motor big prop. I like smaller props. Having a deep power reserve is great but at what point do you sacrifice other capabilities to reach your end?

I'm more than aware of larger esc and motor combos but im not sure what that has to do with this particular boat? I never said it was a bad idea or that is was the wrong choice just was curious why he chose 3040. For all I knew he wanted to go 140 mph !

[keithbradley]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I like higher rpm setups with smaller props. I've run higher rpm smaller props, and lower rpm big motor big prop. I like smaller props. Having a deep power reserve is great but at what point do you sacrifice other capabilities to reach your end?

I'm more than aware of larger esc and motor combos but im not sure what that has to do with this particular boat? I never said it was a bad idea or that is was the wrong choice just was curious why he chose 3040. For all I knew he wanted to go 140 mph !

What exactly are you disagreeing with? I'm stating fact, not opinion. If there's something that I'm saying that you think is untrue, let me know what it is.

I can't help but think that you're concern here is based on your reading other forums and seeing what other people are running, then questioning why this is not the same...reading forums, watching youtube videos, and asking others is great, but in the end, it is only intelligent to base your positions on experience. I saw your "low RPM" setup in the Super Daytona when you were building it, and I knew you wouldn't be happy with it then. You have to understand... you're comparing your setup (First or second build I think, none to little experience with setup?)on your SD to a setup that was put together by someone with over 100 builds under their belt. With all due respect, your Daytona is NOTHING like the boat you're commenting on. If you ran Steve's boat, I assure you that you would have a completely different understanding.

I'm a bit confused why someone who has likely never even held a 3060 in their hands, or even seen one in person (correct me if I'm wrong here) is taking such an active stance against what has already proven, in real life, to be a great setup...

[iridebikes247]

Agree to disagree, its a cliche. I was done with the conversation and its a polite way of ending it you know. lol dude I'm not comparing my super daytona to a high end german boat. I own two now. 3040s are proven.

Taking such an active stance against what has already been proven? Great. I won't be the guy who shows up to a volkswagen vr6 meet with a v8 motor and having the slowest car. By just throwing a big motor at something to go fast rarely works you know this better than anyone. Big motor and high speed, great but I'm impressed by the smaller motor making more power. It runs cooler, its more efficient? Who cares about 4%. Only intelligent to base positions on experience? the 3040 is a great motor I've seen it run recorded temps...myself...and know its worked in the boat, period. With these boats each and every part has its purpose to make it a work of art. Overdoing it makes it look like less appreciation for the unit and its capabilities, less trust in the components and build too....plenty of the guys over in germany see how small they can go with motors and achieve amazing speeds. Opposite end of the thinking spectrum I tend to look here for when amazement is what I seek.

A hood scoop is good to increase air flow but when its so big you can't see the road whats the point. I may have only a few boat builds under my belt but I love engineering explains my two semester...er 1.5 semester stint as one.

Again no hard feelings, I like you Keith. You've helped me out a lot so no disrespect is meant I just have a different view of these things. And no I don't drive a Smart Car lol.

[keithbradley]

I don't know what to tell you here Mike...nobody added a hood scoop to the boat, and nobody "threw a big motor in a boat to make it go fast". Steven chose the 3060s for this boat, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

There are really too many things in your post to pick apart, and I don't see the point in doing it. You see Chris' boat run with 3040s and you like it. There's nothing wrong with that, I like it too...it's a great setup. That doesn't mean that everyone else should run 3040s in everything they own. Some people want something a little different. I am absolutely certain that I could build a boat to go faster than what you've experienced, with motors SMALLER than 3040s. I'm also certain that Steve's boat has the potential to go faster with 3060s. If you are familiar with the build thread I did on this boat, you know that it was part of a two-boat build thread (both 138s) that I did. The other boat is powered by 40mm motors and is also a 100mph+ boat. Both boats, in their own right, are absolutely awesome performers. While Phil opted for a lighter setup and runs his boat in gelcoat, Steve went with the biggest and most powerful motors you could sensibly put in a 138, the most detailed and outrageous paint job I've ever seen on a RC boat, and displays a lot of balls to run it at 108mph. Saying that he has a lack of appreciation or lack of trust is absolutely absurd.

I know you say that you don't mean disrespect, but your posts don't reflect that Mike. If you don't want a boat like Steve's, that's fine. It's a bit silly to infer that it's below you though. Stand back and look at this thread as if your posts were made by someone else. I think it's one of the coolest boats I've ever seen and I give him credit for the choices he has made with it.

I like you as well Mike, that's why I have taken the time to address you here, and answer your texts/emails. I'm happy to do whatever I can to help you run the best you can with what you have, but I don't understand the judgment of someone else's boat here.

If you are only impressed by boats with small motors, here you go. This one has been well over 100mph with motors that are smaller than most people use in their 40-50mph boats (36x60mm). However, I'll be the first to tell you that it's a rag and doesn't even deserve to be in the same thread as Steve's boat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEXw7Hg9mWM

[keithbradley]

Apologies to worriedsick4u for the thread digressions. Your boats are all incredible man. I would love to have any of them!

[worriedsick4u]

Apologies to worriedsick4u for the thread digressions. Your boats are all incredible man. I would love to have any of them!

Thanks for the entertainment.

[iridebikes247]

I'd bow down but my back feels weird. So not happening.