1/10 scale motor options... so now what?

[Doug Smock]

Paul you guys can't possibly use a ESC restriction successfully. And with 3656 motors? That will never work, right fellas??
This guy in Ga. preached that for years and was beat up pretty good for it. The "motor is the fuse" mentality took over and is exactly what eventually brought us to the motor party. Go ahead guys, say it isn't so...

Paul, you owe me an apology for dragging me back into this discussion..

[don ferrette]

Paul you guys can't possibly use a ESC restriction successfully. And with 3656 motors? That will never work, right fellas??
This guy in Ga. preached that for years and was beat up pretty good for it. The "motor is the fuse" mentality took over and is exactly what eventually brought us to the motor party. Go ahead guys, say it isn't so...

Paul, you owe me an apology for dragging me back into this discussion..

Ahhhh Doug ya know it's not the same without you.

Something else I forgot to mention earlier............

A non boater friend of mine asked me the other day what was new and how the boating stuff was going. Told him a little about this current "discussion" about limits and lengths and how we are so close yet so far at the same time. Said biggest thing was the talk of lengths, how some said 56mm and some of us want to go to 60mm to significantly up the choices. He stopped me and said from "what to what?" I said 56 to 60mm. He replied "So a 4mm difference. You guys are hung up on a touch over 1/8th of an inch?"

Ummmm....

1/8th of an inch.

[785boats]

Sorry for dragging ,you back in mate.

As an industrial electrician, I would maintain that the motor/prop is the load & the ESC is akin to a fuse. As I'm sure most people would. And as I'm sure you did.

But yes the restricted ESC works well for us. We can get two races out of one single 5000mah 4s pack with the setup described in my previous post.

Below is a typical Restricted Sports Hydro race for a bit of a comparison.
Most of the boats are Whip 30's or the GP 310. Even the Insane 30 has raced in this class. The yellow boat is an H&M Lifter I think
Sure. The speeds are a bit slower than you guys. But that's the idea. The racing can be extremely close, & bags of fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo_dILHJeu0

[longballlumber]

Ahhhh Doug ya know it's not the same without you.

Something else I forgot to mention earlier............

A non boater friend of mine asked me the other day what was new and how the boating stuff was going. Told him a little about this current "discussion" about limits and lengths and how we are so close yet so far at the same time. Said biggest thing was the talk of lengths, how some said 56mm and some of us want to go to 60mm to significantly up the choices. He stopped me and said from "what to what?" I said 56 to 60mm. He replied "So a 4mm difference. You guys are hung up on a touch over 1/8th of an inch?"

Ummmm....

1/8th of an inch.

Did you tell your friend that 62mm is too long? So in reality it’s a 1/16” that makes the difference between the right direction vs the wrong direction.

[don ferrette]

Did you tell your friend that 62mm is too long? So in reality it’s a 1/16” that makes the difference between the right direction vs the wrong direction.

LOL!! Nah at that point I'm standing thinking in my head are we really duking it out over 1/8th of an inch?

[T.S.Davis]

So.......how do you verify that a 45 amp speedo is truly a 45 amp speedo? Sticker? Good plan. Oh! I know! How about manufacturers rating?!?! Cuz that worked so well with the AQ motors. Two motors with the same stampings with different windings. But sure why not? We can trust manufacturers of the lowest end esc to build them all exactly the same. If yer not hearing the note of sarcasm it's cuz its tough to convey in text form. You guys are too smart for this.

Gas motors and nitro motors are both dimensionaly limited. There's only so much I can do to a .67 nitro motor before it fails. Am I insane here or do they have unlimited power? Why does a limit on a electric motor size freak people out? Please. Somebody explain the apprehension to me because I do NOT understand it.

[Doug Smock]

Just having fun with it now Terry. Paul knows that won't work. Don't tell the guys they are failing Paul. Oh wait, never mind!

I'm not suggesting you go there Terry. That ship has sailed..

Not freaked out BTW. It still is what it is.

[photohoward1]

Hey I have an idea. Limit the Battery. Say 3000mah limit per 1 heat. Not hard to tech battery. If there is a question of how many mah
someone used just take the pack and charge it. if it goes past 3000mah. You are disqualified. Efficiency is the key. Big motor big amps. This scenario would limit the amps used in a race. A guy could run a Neu 1521 or a Lehner if they wanted. They are limited to 3000mah per race. That's about 120 average amps per race. If that's to High then drop it to 2500. That's 100 amps average. If you want an easy way to control power limit the fuel. Heck make it 2000mah. 80 amps average. Don't give me crap that guys need the weight. Just add it then. Not in batteries though. And don't give me crap about "c" ratings. A 2000mah pack with a 70c rating should be good for 140 amps.

[don ferrette]

Hey I have an idea. Limit the Battery. Say 3000mah limit per 1 heat. Not hard to tech battery. If there is a question of how many mah
someone used just take the pack and charge it. if it goes past 3000mah. You are disqualified. Efficiency is the key. Big motor big amps. This scenario would limit the amps used in a race. A guy could run a Neu 1521 or a Lehner if they wanted. They are limited to 3000mah per race. That's about 120 average amps per race. If that's to High then drop it to 2500. That's 100 amps average. If you want an easy way to control power limit the fuel. Heck make it 2000mah. 80 amps average. Don't give me crap that guys need the weight. Just add it then. Not in batteries though. And don't give me crap about "c" ratings. A 2000mah pack with a 70c rating should be good for 140 amps.

Oh hell no. That opens a bigger can of worms than the idea of ESC ratings. What if you jump the start and have to do and extra lap. Or the water's real rough. Or you pick a leaf or something that you can still keep running but creates extra drag. Who's mah checker or charger are ya gonna use? Is it accurate? Geez people WHY is this being made to be so frikkin' complicated?? Like Terry says why does a simple limit on a electric motor size freak people out? What if, what if, what if all these what if scenarios. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!! KISS principle fellas keep it simple and EASY to understand. You measure the motor diameter and length, it's either legal or it's not. END OF STORY!! No lists, no meters, no gray area. You over complicate stuff like this and then wonder why no newbies wanna try it. SMH.......

[Peter A]

Hey I have an idea. Limit the Battery. Say 3000mah limit per 1 heat. Not hard to tech battery. If there is a question of how many mah
someone used just take the pack and charge it. if it goes past 3000mah. You are disqualified. Efficiency is the key. Big motor big amps. This scenario would limit the amps used in a race. A guy could run a Neu 1521 or a Lehner if they wanted. They are limited to 3000mah per race. That's about 120 average amps per race. If that's to High then drop it to 2500. That's 100 amps average. If you want an easy way to control power limit the fuel. Heck make it 2000mah. 80 amps average. Don't give me crap that guys need the weight. Just add it then. Not in batteries though. And don't give me crap about "c" ratings. A 2000mah pack with a 70c rating should be good for 140 amps.

Threw you guys a similar idea in post #39. Howard is right in this respect, limit the available fuel, limit the max potential speed vs runtime. It also means no limits on the motor, run what ever you want, you still have to balance the package to finish a race! If you run 5000mah packs there is only so much power (fuel) available for use. Sure there are always those who will use 95% of available charge, but in that lies the real problem, those who will always want to push the absolute limits, even to the point of cheating to win. Win what? A model boat race of course! Gets you back to standing there wondering why so much debate over 1/8".

[785boats]

I guess I'm just glad that all the guys here are honest. We don't need to worry about people using other than what the rules say.
A plastic $20.00 trophy is all we are playing for. If someone want's to cheat to win that, then "I pity the fool"

[Doug Smock]

Ya know Don is right. Make it simple. Make it a P class...

[don ferrette]

Ya know Don is right. Make it simple. Make it a P class...

Funny and not funny at the same time..............

[don ferrette]

Why are we doomed to keep doing the same stupid stuff over and over..........

This is just like when we (IMPBA) moved to eliminate the LS and XLS engine divisions in the gas classes. Just like now there were a few very vocal doomsdayers who kept coming up with all these what ifs and nightmare possible scenarios. My favorite was how someone was gonna show up with some super duper custom mega dollar billet monster motor and all the Zenoah racers were gonna get their butts handed to them. Well cooler and smarter heads prevailed and it got passed. Guess what? Turned out to be one of the best things to happen for the gas classes. And those doomsday scenarios?? Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. The same guys winning before kept on winning. The best prepared best driven boats still prevailed and the good 'ol affordable Zenoah is still to this day the most winning gas motor ever.

Smart thing here is to set a dimensional limit, pull the pin on a one year trial and see how it plays out. KISS principle.....

I know what I'm going to do in penning the motor limitations for the 1/10 scale rules for D12 and mark my words, we're gonna have FUN running it.

[Doug Smock]

I know what I'm going to do in penning the motor limitations for the 1/10 scale rules for D12 and mark my words, we're gonna have FUN running it.

Go for it!
This class and the others should be managed at the club/ District level anyway. Tony I need that suit!!