Motor number 2 is now toast

[spartanonfire]

I posted this over in the Traxxas forum, just posting it here in case they decide to delete it.

Ok, motor number two is up in smoke and headed back to Traxxas. So far I have a dual pickup rudder(one feeds the ESC, one feeds the motor) Separate water outlets to verify flow to each, oversize cooling lines, and and upgraded aluminum cooling jacket on the motor. It still only lasted 5 minutes and fried so bad the magnet on the armature cracked in half! The flex cable was fell greased and had no bind or wear. So now I'm out of ideas... other than replacing the motor..... how can the stock motor be kept cool running 6s? Traxxas customer support was happy to let me send the motor back in for replacement again, but I don't want to keep running it for 5 minutes and then send the motor off for two weeks (spending $15 shipping) then waiting for the replacement. I now have a $400 boat with another $100 in upgrades and it still overheats. Anyone have any other ideas besides getting an aftermarket motor? (Traxxas recommends upgrading the ESC if you replace the motor so that's another $200 total for an upgraded motor and ESC) Suggestions anyone?

[dag-nabit]

Unless you are willing to wait, and, are confident Traxxas will eventually change out the motor and ESC to something adequate and reliable. I see only two options.

1. Buy an aftermarket ESC and motor and start enjoying the boat.
2. Get your new parts from Traxxas, then sell the Spartan for what you can get for it, and buy something reliable.

Not what you wanted to hear I know, but there are too many reports of multiple replacement motors and ESC's lasting only a few runs (or less). The current setup just isn't making the grade.

Kevin

[Rcforever27]

Lol that sucks man! I still have my stock esc and motor sitting on the bench .got a 180 amp seeking esc,and a leopard 1774kv and a 1400kv motor , still wiring the batteries 6 s i'n series / parallel....... Lots of soldering and wiring.... Well the esc from ose was like104$ and a motor for like 90$.... I hear you thi on spending the. Money ..., I just didn't want to sit and wait for traxxas to come up with something..... By the time tht happens summervwill be over.... Lol good luck! I think you'll be happy with the turnigy 180 or the seaking 180 ,,,, pretty much the same escs.....

[Diesel6401]

I posted this over in the Traxxas forum, just posting it here in case they decide to delete it.

Ok, motor number two is up in smoke and headed back to Traxxas. So far I have a dual pickup rudder(one feeds the ESC, one feeds the motor) Separate water outlets to verify flow to each, oversize cooling lines, and and upgraded aluminum cooling jacket on the motor. It still only lasted 5 minutes and fried so bad the magnet on the armature cracked in half! The flex cable was fell greased and had no bind or wear. So now I'm out of ideas... other than replacing the motor..... how can the stock motor be kept cool running 6s? Traxxas customer support was happy to let me send the motor back in for replacement again, but I don't want to keep running it for 5 minutes and then send the motor off for two weeks (spending $15 shipping) then waiting for the replacement. I now have a $400 boat with another $100 in upgrades and it still overheats. Anyone have any other ideas besides getting an aftermarket motor? (Traxxas recommends upgrading the ESC if you replace the motor so that's another $200 total for an upgraded motor and ESC) Suggestions anyone?

All the cooling options and add ons in the world aren't going to fix a inefficient poorly made motor. Dump the motor/esc tell traxxas to get bent and get a motor/esc up to the task. Just my 2 cents.

BTW nice user name....

[GeoVW72]

All the cooling in the world will not solve the core problem.


5 min was pretty quick, what were the temps?
What outlets were you using?

[spartanonfire]

5 min was pretty quick, what were the temps?
What outlets were you using?

The temps were so hot the cooling line to the cooling jacket melted and the magnet cracked in half! Stock traxxas connectors and billet water outlets. Last time I was running it in short bursts... with very little flat out runs. People suggested that was hard on the speed controller and wasn't getting enough water flow through the cooling system. So this time I ran it faster, for longer periods of time. Looks like it was just as bad if not worse.

Also of note... the armature was way out of balance from Traxxas. I pulled it apart when I got it and rolled it on the table and it was not even close. It wobbled all over the place. I wonder if that could have attributed to the catastrophic failure?

[Diesel6401]

The voltage/rpm range (4s-6s on the same prop) that traxxas is suggesting, that motor should really be a 4 or 6 pole. That boat is far more expensive then any AQ or PB boat and both those companies offer you solid race proven 6 pole motors with there brushless boats. Shame on Traxxas for such a pathetic motor choice. They should have dumped the lame nimh batts and focused on a better motor.

[GeoVW72]

The temps were so hot the cooling line to the cooling jacket melted and the magnet cracked in half!

I'm guessing from, the working temp of pvc line is around 130-170*f, as far as I've found. There's a reason that most use silicone line.
Got any pics of the melted line?

Everyone on here will agree that esc's work harder at partial throttle.

You don't have to tell me about the rotors
I'm kind of on the fence as to if that is an actual factor
All the two poles I have checked have been off balance to some degree, keep in mind that's static balance and the epoxy wrap seems to have a lot to do with it.

Can't really tell on the id of the outlets, you want something around 1/8" id, flow out = flow in.
Can you expand on what happened? when one of my motors split it took all the epoxy off the rotor

Diesel6401 agreed, but it costs them almost nothing to toss the nimh in the box and slap rtr on the side.

[spartanonfire]

The cooling line only melted to the extent it got soft and was easily pulled off the metal nipple. It was running half throttle to 3/4 in the turns then full throttle runs going straight. After about 5 to 8 minutes of this I hit full throttle and while going at top speed and it just died. When the guy in the kyak prought it to me you could smell the smoke and feel the heat on the cockpit cover. The batteries were hardly even warm and the connectors were not hot. The flex cable was hard to spin until I disconnected it from the motor. (The motor was locked up from the magnets splitting and dragging against the coils inside. Just glad it didn't fry the ESC too.

[Steven Vaccaro]

The voltage/rpm range (4s-6s on the same prop) that traxxas is suggesting, that motor should really be a 4 or 6 pole.

2 poles, 4 poles, 6 poles. It really doesn't matter. They used a motor that is inefficient at the 6s voltage they are suggesting. Causing way to much heat, that is hard to handle. If they did there testing correctly they could have used a 2 pole motor on 6s that would have been fine, but the rpm would have been lower. The top speed would have also been a bit lower. They wanted the "shock" value of being able to say that we have a 50mph boat and also have the boat run at ok speeds on 4s. I'm sorry they cant have both like they do with their cars and trucks.

6s on that motor is just to much. I have sold 2 pole motors that have run on 6s. MANY of those guys frequent and have posted positive results on this board.

I'm sure they did lots of R&D on this boat at 6s, but I do wonder how much experience the r&d guys had in fe boating. My opinion is that they may have not taken into effect is the different climates these boats are running in. Running this boat in Boston today I would think the boat would be fine. The water is 45 degrees, the air is 50 degrees. Judging by when the Traxxas guys were buying props, cables, motors and shafts from OSE, it would seem Traxxas was testing in January to March in Texas.

[Diesel6401]

2 poles, 4 poles, 6 poles. It really doesn't matter. They used a motor that is inefficient at the 6s voltage they are suggesting. Causing way to much heat, that is hard to handle. If they did there testing correctly they could have used a 2 pole motor on 6s that would have been fine, but the rpm would have been lower. The top speed would have also been a bit lower. They wanted the "shock" value of being able to say that we have a 50mph boat and also have the boat run at ok speeds on 4s. I'm sorry they cant have both like they do with their cars and trucks.

6s on that motor is just to much. I have sold 2 pole motors that have run on 6s. MANY of those guys frequent and have posted positive results on this board.

I'm sure they did lots of R&D on this boat at 6s, but I do wonder how much experience the r&d guys had in fe boating. My opinion is that they may have not taken into effect is the different climates these boats are running in. Running this boat in Boston today I would think the boat would be fine. The water is 45 degrees, the air is 50 degrees. Judging by when the Traxxas guys were buying props, cables, motors and shafts from OSE, it would seem Traxxas was testing in January to March in Texas.

O I completely agree that a 2 pole of better quality could have worked. I agree with that 100%, I just suggested a higher pole because this boat is marketed towards the new crowd and higher pole seem to be a little more forgiving if improperly propped and if using the same prop on 3 different voltage types 4s,5s,6s the higher pole count maybe could have handled things a little better. Normally if I increase the voltage, a prop swap is normally done especially going from 4s to 6s. 4s/5s I can try the same prop.. Ammo 2 poles get the job done very well and I think some Lehners are 2 pole as well and we all know what they can do. I am not saying a one is better then the other, I am just saying more forgiven to errors made. You know how traxxas gives a different gear for more speed with there trucks, they should have added a smaller dimension prop with this boat for 6s runs. I think lowering the prop size could have helped a little as well. JMO

[hyrulejedi86]

So, Steve, are you saying that they bought their supplies from you when they were doing R&D on the spartan?

[Steven Vaccaro]

I can't be 100%, because every time I asked a question, I didnt get a response. But a couple of Traxxas guys were buying carbon props and cables. Sent to Plano Texas, and always needed there stuff next day, no matter the cost. They also bought a couple of other things but thats another story left for a time when someones buying me a beer.

[spartanonfire]

I can't be 100%, because every time I asked a question, I didnt get a response. But a couple of Traxxas guys were buying carbon props and cables. Sent to Plano Texas, and always needed there stuff next day, no matter the cost. They also bought a couple of other things but thats another story left for a time when someones buying me a beer.

What kind of beer do you like?

[Steven Vaccaro]

the beer is the easy part. Getting me there is a whole other story.