Traxxas customer support response to overheat

[anilao]

This is the email response I got from Traxxas support. Any thoughts/comments on this?

quote:
"Hello,

There is no recall. Our engineers are looking into the complaints we have received.

The most common cause of overheating is inadequate lubrication of the flex tube.

If you are having overheating issues with your Spartan first determine which issue you are having. There are two unique "over temp" modes with the 5708 Spartan. These are listed in the Owner's Manual. http://www.traxxas.com/pdfs/5708_manual.pdf

Here are some guidelines specific to this model. These assume that the transmitter and receiver are functioning normally (steering and throttle are working).

Most likely issues to troubleshoot are here, in order:

1. ESC in LiPo cut-off

a. ESC is solid green in neutral at start of run (after system is powered up and initialized).

b. ESC will blink red (slow blink) to indicate low-voltage detection.

c. Power is reduced to 25%. This is very slow. Return to shore and unplug to avoid LiPo damage.

2. Motor overtemp - this is unique to this model.

a. ESC will not show any blinking. Will be either solid green (LiPo mode) or solid red (NiMh mode) in neutral

b. RX will have fast red blink.

c. Steering will still function normally.

d. Throttle will be reduced to about 33%. Boat will continue to drive normally, just slower.

e. If the boat is unplugged and motor allowed to cool, it will function normally again.

f. Possible causes:

i. Lack of water flow

1. Pinched or disconnected water line

2. Poor flow through rudder due to clog/debris

3. Check for clear flow (disconnect and blow through lines and rudder)

4. Defective rudder

ii. Flex cable and stuffing tube need to be oiled (or there is damage from lack of lubrication)

1. Loud squeal noise is from lack of lubrication. This happens abruptly during a run if the normal flex shaft lubrication is not done per the specified intervals in the manual.

2. Continued running will damage the flex tube and liner and these require replacement.

3. If noise is noticed, return to shore, unplug batteries, and lube flex cable per instructions.

iii. Location of water jacket on motor in incorrect

1. Should be centered on motor

iv. Strut angle is excessive (binding flex shaft)

v. Defective motor

1. If none of the above issues exist, then the motor may be defective. Suggest returning motor for test/replacement.

3. Throttle pulsing during WOT.

a. ESC issue. Return ESC for service.

4. ESC thermal. LED on ESC will blink.

a. This is VERY uncommon for this model. Issue is likely one of the 1st two items above.

b. Typically, the motor will hit overtemp or the ESC is in low-voltage detection



Best regards,
XXXXXXXX
Traxxas Customer Service

Please include all previous e-mails in your response

If you need further assistance, please contact our Customer Service department Monday through Friday, 8:30am to 9:00pm Central Time at one of the following numbers:

US Customers 1-888-TRAXXAS (Toll Free)
Outside of US 001-972-265-8000 "

[Diesel6401]

The most common cause of overheating is inadequate lubrication of the flex tube.

Cough Cough... BULL-SH**...Cough Cough...


*Sorry so man people are having problems*

[Brushless55]

Cough Cough... BULL-SH**...Cough Cough...


*Sorry so man people are having problems*

check this *!***!***!***!** out D
I just noticed the mods deleted again a responce to the bull crap about the heat issues in that thread!

[GeoVW72]

Here are some guidelines specific to this model. These assume that the transmitter and receiver are functioning normally (steering and throttle are working).

yet they make no mention of the transmitters that lose their program after you turn them off

[Brushless55]

yet they make no mention of the transmitters that lose their program after you turn them off

oh dang!

[mappo]

Here are some of the Excerts that i sent to traxxas and you will see the responce


Thanks. Our engineers are looking into reported problems.

Regards,
Steve

At 05:45 PM 1/24/2011 -0500, you wrote:



Trust me here, the lack of lube on the flex from the factory isnt the reason for the overheating. Lube will not prevent driveline binding in a new stuffing tube with a new flex. Obviously you want to pull the flex and lube it up before maiden runs. (should be done from the factory) The cooling jacket. Also not the problem. A better jacket isn't going to cure the problem. It is a cheap 2 ole motor that is too small and has too much kv for a rtr boat to run 6s reliably. Traxxas needs to recall these boats and offer a different motor free of charge. Good luck with that.

Also, who in the hell gave this plastic un-proven turd boat of the year? Seriously, I don't know who it was but we should flood them with e-mails.Lastly, who wants to spend 400 bucks on a plastic boat that they know they will have to upgrade just to run properly? Get a real hull. With real hardware. Everything about this boat just looks so damn cheap.


I would of thought if Aquacraft or Proboat had any serious problems like this with any of their boats they would have responded to issues & at leased spoken out about trying to resolve any problems but where are Traxxas. I was seriously looking at getting a Spartan along with many others i suspect with all the hype that surrounded them but not any more even if they do resolve any problems ive lost interest in this boat. Thanks Martin
Proboat fixed the reverse rotation flex issue on the miss geico rather quickly, they didn't have the correct cables immediately, but they acknowledged the issue within a week.Since Traxxas knows about these problems and their warranty program is pretty awesome.

I'm about to buy one of these boats and BEAT THE S**T out of it. Run it until it blows lol.....Would be fun to push a boat hard knowing all will be replaced for free lol....

"I ran it according to the manual, you said I could run 6s for 20+ minutes", I didn't know smoke was bad, I'm a newbie!!

Everyone gets teething problems with new products but the issue Traxxas has i think is more than a teething problem especially for anyone that has already bought a Spartan. How on earth did they not come across the heat problems when they were doing R&D on this boat. Like i said get a Aquacraft or Proboat & youll get a company that knows what their doing & stands behind their products & generally gets them right or at least talks to people if they do have a problem which is normally quite small issues to which they resolve very well. Thanks Martin.

[GP73]

I'm sorry guys but what do you expect? Have you read the rules of the Traxxas forum?

"No Traxxas Bashing. This is the Traxxas online community for Traxxas enthusiasts. It will naturally have a pro-Traxxas bias. It’s simple. If you don’t like Traxxas and wish to discredit us with your misinformed rants and opinions, then don’t be a member of our community. Your posts will not be tolerated. You will not be allowed to wage your personal crusade against Traxxas in our online community. Go someplace else. "


Mappo: sending out to Traxxas excerpts of other people posts (and without their consent) is not exactly the best idea... I'm not sure what that would accomplish either.

[Brushless55]

Thats so funny!
when people post the true issues with this boat on Traxxas (no bashing) they delete!
but they ride out the lies posted by Traxxas employees!

[GP73]

I don't know man, I was on that forum 15 minutes ago and I saw several posts regarding the overheating...

I'm pretty sure that if you report a problem in a civil manner nobody will delete your posts.

After all I don't think they are stupid, they must know that over-censoring could backfire badly.

Thats so funny!
when people post the true issues with this boat on Traxxas (no bashing) they delete!
but they ride out the lies posted by Traxxas employees!

[Brushless55]

That's just it bro
You can be a civil as you want and they still delete stuff
And some on traxxas forums have caught onto this and are starting to ask questions as to why...

[mappo]

I'm sorry guys but what do you expect? Have you read the rules of the Traxxas forum?

"No Traxxas Bashing. This is the Traxxas online community for Traxxas enthusiasts. It will naturally have a pro-Traxxas bias. It’s simple. If you don’t like Traxxas and wish to discredit us with your misinformed rants and opinions, then don’t be a member of our community. Your posts will not be tolerated. You will not be allowed to wage your personal crusade against Traxxas in our online community. Go someplace else. "


Mappo: sending out to Traxxas excerpts of other people posts (and without their consent) is not exactly the best idea... I'm not sure what that would accomplish either.

I have never been on the Traxxas Forum, all of my questions was sent to Traxxas support and a guy by the name of Steve responded. All of my original comments was sent before production of the Titan/spartan. Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 21:01:23 -0500. my fourth contact was with the comments of several of the OSE forum members since the release of the Spartan

Here is my posting to Traxxas!

Hi folks, whats, with the plastic hull, when all other builders are using fiber! you are asking too much for an ABS boat. you will price yourself out of the market. my son have 2 of the villains and was looking forward to buying another boat when he saw the Titan video, but i told him to wait, so if your plan is to build in plastic, we will have to buy elsewhere. best wishes


Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 21:01:23 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ABS???? -sl

Thanks for letting us know. You will need to purchase elsewhere if fiberglass is your criteria.


Best regards,
Steve Lindholm,
TRAXXAS Customer Service

At 10:52 PM 5/19/2010 -0400,

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http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=11853
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11240

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3750

[Brushless55]

its kinda strange over there???

[GeoVW72]

Finally got my boat, things are still frozen here so nothing to do but tear it apart

The thing that I have noticed was that the teflon stuffing tube liner was spinning in the brass tube around half throttle on the bench with nimh.

Everything else that I've seen, the teflon stays in place. The brass tube had a very smooth bore, not sure if that's the design or not.

Could that be the problem, the combined friction of the cable on the teflon and the teflon on the brass, cause the teflon to melt down?
I could see their view on the flex shafts being lubricated inadequately if there is friction where there shouldn't be lube.

It's very difficult to spot unless you mark the teflon tubing(marred slightly when pulling it out)

[Boomer]

ABS vs. Fiberglass

Mappo,
I had a Spartan on order for months, but when I began to read the posts regarding high temperature issues, I opted to cancel my order until a time when the root cause has been determined, and if corrections are needed, that the good folks a Traxxas would take care of business. Once I was able to see and lift the Traxxas Spartan, my sense was that a little thicker hull would have been a positive. The extra weight would affect the speed of the boat, but not enough to worry about.

I have some experience in the plastics field and would like to share some information regarding the construction material selected for the Traxxas Spartan hull and internal components, in this case ABS. The concern is generally one of strenght and long term durability.

I think we can agree that most any of these types of high performance boats that crash hard enough, and often enough are going to be damaged. After all, the full size race boats don't do very well when they crash, no matter what they are made of.

Fiberglass is a form of plastic, and falls into a family of plastics call "thermosets" and in the business is referred to as FRP = Fiber reinforced plastic. Both, FRP (fiberglass) and ABS are a class of materials, rather then a specific material. Both classes have a wide range of the physical properties.

Here are a few definitions and general properties:

What is fiberglass? Fiberglass fibers are made from molten glass extruded at a specified diameter. The fibers are gathered into bundles and the bundles combined create a roving. Rovings are a continuous rope, similar to twine, and are wound on a mandrel to form a ball called a doff. Reinforcements for FRP are made from rovings that are either chopped into short strands or woven into a cloth...". The fibers give added strength and resistance to shattering when impacted.

"FRP or fiberglass reinforced plastic, is a composite made from fiberglass reinforcement in a plastic (polymer) matrix. A construction analogy would be the steel reinforcing bars in a concrete matrix for highways....."

What is ABS? It is a copolymer of Acrylonitrile, Butadiene, and Styrene. ABS plastics generally possess medium strength and performance and medium cost; ABS is often used as the cost and performance dividing line between standard plastics (PVC, polyethylene, polystyrene, etc.) and engineering plastics (acrylic, nylon, acetal, etc.).

ABS polymers can be engineered by the manufacturer to give a range of physical properties, depending on the ratio of the monomeric constituents and the molecular level connectivity. Typically, a styrene-acrylonitrile glassy phase is toughened by an amorphous butadiene/butadiene-acrylonitrile "rubber phase". It is a widely use material in the automotive, plumbing industries, and interestingly, it is used in safety applications such as hard hats.

The most important mechanical properties of ABS are impact resistance and toughness, which is relevant to this discussion. A variety of modifications can be made to improve impact resistance, toughness, and heat resistance. The impact resistance can be amplified by increasing the proportions of polybutadiene in relation to styrene and also acrylonitrile, although this causes change in other properties. Impact resistance does not fall off rapidly at lower temperatures. For this discussion, we don't know if formula used to make these boats falls into this category. Generally, ABS would have useful characteristics within a temperature range from 10 to 80 °C
(50 to 176 °F).

While the cost of producing ABS is roughly twice the cost of producing polystyrene (many toys are made of this material), ABS is considered superior for its hardness, gloss, toughness, and electrical insulation properties. It is degraded (dissolved) when exposed to acetone.

*ABS is flammable when it is exposed to high temperatures, such as a wood fire or in our case, an exploding ESC or battery. It will melt, boil, then burst spectacularly into intense, hot flames. Something to be aware of.

In conclusion:
What all this boils down to is that the primary difference between Fiberglass and ABS in this application is that the ABS used to make this boat tends to be less expensive to make, due it's lower raw material cost, and that it can be injection molded to produce things in large numbers, as these boats are. The bottom line is that fiberglass is more labor intensive to make and therefore would cost more, even in China.

The ABS is more likely to shatter on impact than fiberglass. If we were able to crash tests identical boats made of these two materials, the damages would be similar in scope, but different in appearance. The fiberglass boat, if not damaged beyond repair, would certainly be friendlier to the repair process than the ABS boat. The fiberglass boat would be less likely to sink, as it is not likely to shatter on impact, therefore holding it's original form better than the same ABS boat, which could shatter into pieces in the area of impact, which could leave openings for the water to leak in through.

If I were King, I'd have made this boat out of fiberglass, still might get one, once it has been on the market for a longer period of time.

If you have read all this, thank you. If you didn't, doesn't matter much as this was just food for thought.

Boomer

[H2OCamel]

Hey Boomer thanks for sharing the info. I did read the whole thing and Thanks for taking the time. Interesting stuff. I work in manufacturing making plastic bottles and filling them with chemicals. Your info helps me understand things a little better :)