Zelos 48: Modding, Running, & Setup Discussion

[fweasel]

I found it interesting that the last inch or so of the TP can holds nothing - no winds etc etc or anything. Are we supposed to think the motor is beefier than it really is?

That's weird

[kfxguy]

Couple things for your info:

A sf300 days logging and non datalogging is no difference in speed whatsoever. Not that I've seen in my testing. My shocker went the same speed with either esc. You may have even read that in some of my threads.

Timing. I find it VERY important to run the timing at auto. If not and you run it at the timing you think the motor is supposed to be at, the motor runs hot, the escs runs hot, the wires heat up and the connectors run hot. I'd imagine you'll have issues with longevity, and judging by what I've read, you are. I've never smoked a sf300. Never. I have had one just quit on me. It was in a hard crash (98mph, dead stop in a foot or two). I did lots of bench testing when I started running these units and auto is what you want it set on no matter what motor you have. If I remember correctly my Daytona was 10+mph slower when I had the timing locked. I also ran data logs on low voltage on the bench and saw much increased freewheeling rpm when set on auto. Try it back to back and you'll see what I'm telling you is truth. You'll see lower temps too. I'm not sure what the heck is wrong with swordfish's timing settings but this is the only way I can get them to last. O and make sure the cooling hose that jumps the two cooling bats together on the escs is not kinked. I've come across a few that were.

[IRON-PAWW]

Hey Travis. I like the workshop mate! :-)

I ran the leopard combo on auto timing first up - exactly because I'd read that people had found it better that way. I ended up with a hot motor that way & hot plugs as well. When I switched to 8° timing the heat factor was a lot better. There may have been something else going on I suppose. That is the 2nd SF300 and motor combo that I've smoked, the other was in another boat on a very conservative setup. This time I made damn sure I was happy with all the soldering etc etc. I'm going to begin the TP boat very conservatively and go from there. I run my 36in Ariane on a SF300A on Auto and that's been going well for ages... Guess I'll switch the original boat over to Auto too as a test... That's on 8° too at the moment.

If you look over on KBB they have this little note against the SF300A Lite.
These ESCs now come WITHOUT a data logger. Many of us have noticed in our testing that while data loggers can be cool to use, they have an undesirable effect on the performance of the ESC. Newer data logging ESCs seem to have a lower power output ability. Part of this may be caused by the increased resistance realized from the added logger. For this reason, we had the newest models of the SF300 made without the logger. If you want a no-nonsense, simple ESC with a ton of power capability, the SF300 is perfect!

Can't really judge the comment myself but interesting nontheless. So far - the original boat is slightly slower over what it was with the Dynamite ESC. Could be other factors there it's true - I reinforced the boat since then etc etc.

Like many people now I think - the black shrink on the 300A lite's is the first thing that comes off for me. I too have found the kinked jumper hose. Plus - they just leak as well. I put on a much larger silicone hose and silicone them on as well. I put clear shrink over the ESC so I can see if it's getting water in it.


fweasel: Yeah I thought it was a little odd. The heavy cynic in me says it's a ploy to make people think they're getting a beefy motor. hard to photograph but I'll give it a go. In that pic above - the can sticking out past the rear clamp has no winds etc etc in it at all...

[IRON-PAWW]

Ok. Smartphoning this one in. I need some help & suggestions.

I ran the TP5670 1050kv with a 4814 2 blade prop on 8S. Swordfish 300A datalogging ESC.

Began on 8° timing.


I ran this combo for under 30 seconds as very preliminary test on this setup. **Lucky** because it got Very hot in that time. 120°-135°F

I let it cool down and changed the timing back to 4° as I'd read that TP recommends lower timing on their motors. I ran that for about 20 seconds. Got hot again.

Motor - Motor leads - ESC all getting hot. Batteries OK though.

Data logs show very high amp loads around 280A for these runs. RPM only around 22,000.

I didn't try the auto timing though so that will be next.

I think this motor just isn't right for this boat though. Do you guys think that's the case? Be honest and let me have it because I need to know.

[IRON-PAWW]

The TP 5670 was faulty. Verified by TP Power themselves.

A piece of insulation wasn't installed properly at the factory and was most definitely causing the heating issues. See the pic they sent me below. Thanks to Steve V for connecting me with TP, and thanks to Candy at TP for helping me out. Getting a new one hot off the press.

However - I did get a Castle 2028 800kv the other day with their price drop...

[fweasel]

It's always satisfying to get an answer like that. Have you run the castle motor yet?

[IRON-PAWW]

Yes actually. I was too intrigued with how the castle would go in this hull in the end not to try it. Pretty simple swapout. The stock motor mountings came out no problem - and OSE's mounting system for the 2028 actually fits like a charm into the Zelos 48. Because it's 800kv I think it really needs 10s, so I have a set of 4x5s LiPo's on the way. I've done a few runs on 8s with the gear I already have though. Slower of course - but with all the issues I've had I figured some conservative shakedown runs were probably a good idea. Ran with 4814 2 blade prop. Actually didn't do too bad speed wise - but slower as you'd expect.

So according to the data logs I got 26,000rpm unloaded. 22,000 - 23,000 rpm during runs. Max current only 148amps. Temps were fairly cool. So it all seems about right.

Will up to 10s next and see how it goes.

That's 2/2 faulty TP motors for me. You wouldn't frikkin read about it... But yeah .. satisfying to know I was rightfully suspecting a fault.

[Yellow]

Cant wait to see the 10S review! What speeds were you getting on 8S?

[IRON-PAWW]

I didn't load in the GPS for the 8s runs unfortunately. Would have been in the 40's (40mph) range for sure I think. With the data log figures there's definitely room to prop up on 8S for sure. Might test that in the coming weeks - but I think 10S will be the sweet spot here. if the boat pushes on too much past 55 - 60mph I think I'll have to look at the blow-over issue though. might be interesting :-)

[Yellow]

I'm confused...only in the 40's with 8s? The stock zelos 48 will do 55+ MPH on 8s. What am I missing here?

[IRON-PAWW]

Remember the Castle 2028 extreme is an 800kv motor. The stock Dynamite motor is 1000kv. So - on the same voltage the Castle will produce less rpm. I ran exactly the same prop as I did on the Dynamite on 8S as well - so it's going to be slower. It was really just a shakedown cruise - nothing more. On 10s voltage the Castle's rpm will increase and hopefully I'll be able to swing a bigger prop than the Dynamite on 8S - without going into amp meltdown. Time will tell.

With a low amp draw and low temps - I could actually prop up the Castle on 8S for faster speeds too. That could well work - I'd just need to watch the amps.

Sometimes - with the right motor and setup etc - you can increase the voltage for more rpm & run a smaller prop to get the speed you want - and end up with a more manageable amp draw. Note I said with the right setup. :-)

EDIT: Theoretical numbers.

Dynamite 1000kv (8s):
4.2v x 8s = 33.6v (your 8s voltage fully charged)
So - 33.6v x 1000kv = 33,600rpm

Castle 2028 800kv (8S):
4.2v x 8s = 33.6v
So - 33.6v x 800kv = 26,880rpm

Castle 2028 800kv (10S):
4.2v x 10s = 42.0v (your 10s voltage fully charged)
So - 42.0v x 800kv = 33,600rpm

[Yellow]

Question... On a stock zelos 48, is it ok to series two (2) 2s batteries on each side for a total of 8s, or are you allowed to only use two 4s batteries?

[IRON-PAWW]

So you want to use 4 x 2s batteries to get up to 8s voltage - by connecting them all in series. Yes you can do it. Make sure they are all the same Mah rating and C rating. If you try slotting a weaker battery into such an array you run the very real risk of damaging it.

**BUT**A little battery theory...

When you connect the same spec batteries batteries in series you double the voltage - but the mah stays the same. So - when you connect 2 x 5000mah 2s batteries in series you get 5000mah worth of 4s. If you connected 4 x 5000mah 2s batteries in series you'd get 5000mah worth of 8s.

When you connect like batteries in parallel - you double the mah - but the voltage stays the same.

My honest opinion is that a total of 5000mah is not enough for the stock Zelos 48. I think your run time will be very short. If you're going to do it - a short test (1 minute tops) and check temps etc etc. You'd really want c ratings of 60c+. When you start going into bigger hulls with smaller mah totals you *must* be careful of amp draw and run times. If you try drawing too much power from batteries that can't handle it they could puff / overheat etc etc. Bad bad bad.....

10,000mah on tap is what you really need (my opinion).

Higher mah allows the system to draw more amps, and run longer - and for people with less experience (like me) this is a better idea.


In theory - if you had
5000mah with C rating 60. 5.0 x 60 = 300. Meaning you can safely and efficiently pull 300A.


So the theory says it's possible - but practice is very often different. Especially where one company's 60c is anothers 30c.... know what I mean. With high spec and high mah 2s cells you could do it - if that's what you have. But plan on 4s packs - or even 8s packs ($$) if you're planning on getting packs just for the Zelos 48. If you've got 5000mah 2s packs then - personally I wouldn't.

[urbs00007]

Yes actually. I was too intrigued with how the castle would go in this hull in the end not to try it. Pretty simple swapout. The stock motor mountings came out no problem - and OSE's mounting system for the 2028 actually fits like a charm into the Zelos 48. Because it's 800kv I think it really needs 10s, so I have a set of 4x5s LiPo's on the way. I've done a few runs on 8s with the gear I already have though. Slower of course - but with all the issues I've had I figured some conservative shakedown runs were probably a good idea. Ran with 4814 2 blade prop. Actually didn't do too bad speed wise - but slower as you'd expect.

So according to the data logs I got 26,000rpm unloaded. 22,000 - 23,000 rpm during runs. Max current only 148amps. Temps were fairly cool. So it all seems about right.

Will up to 10s next and see how it goes.

That's 2/2 faulty TP motors for me. You wouldn't frikkin read about it... But yeah .. satisfying to know I was rightfully suspecting a fault.

i have the same setup except for 800 kv on 10s. still building should i tear down the motor?

[IRON-PAWW]

So wait.... you have an 800kv TP Motor? Or the 800kv Castle?

I'm done with TP Motors. 2 bad motors straight out of the box is enough for me. If you have a new one I'd definitely open it and check all is as it should be. Or else run it *carefully* first up to check for excessive heat.

The castle 2020 Extreme has run very well straight from the box. Still incrementing the props up at the moment. Looks good so far... Different beast to the TP stuff.