Miss Geico 24 Upgrade -need help please!

[taxitotheocean]

Dear all,
To introduce myself first - Im Trutz from Germany all new to the rc thing.
In advance please excuse my noob questions and my englisch as well
I recently bought the Miss Geico 24. Its all stock still - 15t 550 brushed Motor watercooled 3,17mm shaft , 50A Esc; running on a 7cell 4500 nihm pack.
Are there any small other options to improve the speed Without making her brushless? Prop for example? What do i have to look for to not burn the components when using a bigger prop and what size or Material sgould it be? Its Plastik 2 blades at the Moment btw.
If not -can anyone recommend a good working brushless setup
to bring her around 30mph?
Sorry for my noobisch questions-still learning
Regards
Trutz

[J.W. Pepper]

I wanted one of these boats really bad for a brushless upgrade, but couldn't get answers to what prop I should use. So I went with a Shockwave 26V3 instead. I kept all the info I collected about the MG24 for future reference.

As far as trying to make your MG24 faster, the stock motor is about the best you can hope for as far as brushed motors go. Brushless is the only way to go these days, the prices have come down so much that it's often times cheaper to go that way. The stock motor mount will allow you use most all common BL motors on the market, so you don't have to worry about doing a bunch of mods to your hull.

I was going to use this motor... http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...t-1500Kv-Motor - had I purchased the MG24. Seaking 60A ESC (running parallel with the hull) would fit where the stock unit is now, perfect place for it because that's where the water line goes in.

As I said in the beginning, I was having a hard time getting answers about props. The steerable outdrive on that boat means the prop is submerged; having a submerged prop means running on the small side because the entire prop is underwater the whole time.

I attached a list of props I compiled that might work on that boat, I can't give you specific info because I don't the answers. Maybe someone can contribute with that info.

Hopefully this info gets you going in the right direction, good luck

Dear all,
To introduce myself first - Im Trutz from Germany all new to the rc thing.
In advance please excuse my noob questions and my englisch as well
I recently bought the Miss Geico 24. Its all stock still - 15t 550 brushed Motor watercooled 3,17mm shaft , 50A Esc; running on a 7cell 4500 nihm pack.
Are there any small other options to improve the speed Without making her brushless? Prop for example? What do i have to look for to not burn the components when using a bigger prop and what size or Material sgould it be? Its Plastik 2 blades at the Moment btw.
If not -can anyone recommend a good working brushless setup
to bring her around 30mph?
Sorry for my noobisch questions-still learning
Regards
Trutz

[taxitotheocean]

Hey JW thanks for the quick answer. Looks good for the begining!
How would the watersupply work for that esc? Can i just use the existing
watercooling by adding a "t-part" on the entry an outlet of the boat and connect the esc to the same watercycle?
Which lipo setup would you suggest for the combo?
2x2s to get it eell ballanced?
Regards

[taxitotheocean]

Hey JW thanks for the quick answer. Looks good for the begining!
How would the watersupply work for that esc? Can i just use the existing
watercooling by adding a "t-part" on the entry an outlet of the boat and connect the esc to the same watercycle?
Which lipo setup would you suggest for the combo?
2x2s to get it eell ballanced?
Regards

[J.W. Pepper]

...How would the watersupply work for that esc?...

It depends on the ESC model, some have 2 water pipes, some have 4. I'll use this model for an example because it's a popular brand (its exact same thing as Seaking ESC)... http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Boat_ESC.html - you would take the water line from the transom & connect it to one of those pipes, left side pipe would be good. Yes that means cutting the existing hose to make fit correctly, remember too that you want nice even bends.

Next you run a hose from the right side ESC pipe up to the left (port) side of the motor cooler (look at the pic in previous post) and plug it into the water pipe. Take the existing hose that goes from the stock motor's cooling coil to the outside, unplug it from the cooling coil and plug it into the right side (starboard) pipe of the brushless motor cooler, that's all there is to it.

Attached is one of the pictures I collected while thinking about buying one of these boats, it shows you where I am talking about putting the ESC.

BTW: It's best to cool the ESC first, then the motor.

Batteries... I don't think there's enough room for 2x 2S LiPo's, and it would probably be too much power for that size boat; especially with the outdrive, they can get damaged from too much power. Single 3S LiPo would be the most you would want to use with that boat. I'm sure a 3S would fit the existing battery tray just fine.

Here's a good example... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdId=PRB0650 - it's the boat I got instead of MG24... Notice it has a 1500Kv BL motor running on a single 3S LiPo. There's a reason why Proboat did that

The motor in that Shockwave boat is basically the same motor as the PB 1500Kv from previous post, only now it's made by Dynamite & pretty blue colour.

Hope this info helped to answer your questions & give you idea's about how to upgrade to brushless.

Hey JW thanks for the quick answer. Looks good for the begining!
How would the watersupply work for that esc? Can i just use the existing
watercooling by adding a "t-part" on the entry an outlet of the boat and connect the esc to the same watercycle?
Which lipo setup would you suggest for the combo?
2x2s to get it eell ballanced?
Regards

[yogix]

I have this boat and have run it a few times and its great but the battery doesn't last too long. Its the speedpack 2400. Will changing to LiPos give me a longer run time

[lenny]

Yes if you go with a higher mah packs,
And you will need to time your runs so you do not run the pack down to far.
Do you have a good charger for lipo's ?
It should be a little faster to.

[yogix]

Yes if you go with a higher mah packs,
And you will need to time your runs so you do not run the pack down to far.
Do you have a good charger for lipo's ?
It should be a little faster to.

No my battery is Dynamite Speedpack 2400mAh Ni-MH 6-Cell Flat with EC3 Connector so I guess I would need a new charger. Would I need a new ESC?

[J.W. Pepper]

...my battery is Dynamite Speedpack 2400mAh Ni-MH 6-Cell Flat with EC3 Connector so I guess I would need a new charger...
My Shockwave 26V3 came with the exact same battery & charger as the MG24's, there both worthless piece of sh*t. PB put them with the boat so beginners can go to the lake right away.

Update: most RTR boats & trucks come with a cheapo wall wart charger (see attached pic) that takes overnight to charge even a low mAh capacity battery. The Dynamite 2A charger is FAR bettery than those, but it keeps turning off before the battery is all the way charged - I tested mine to make sure it works. More info is here... http://www.proboatmodels.com/ProdInf...m_11-28-12.pdf

The battery is also very good quality, but the low mAh capacity limits your runtime's as you have found out. That's why Lenny told you to get higher mAh capacity packs, it's the main thing that gives longer runtimes.

I have cycled my SpeedPack batt twice (completely discharge then charge), both times it took a 3000mAh charge using Onyx 220 charger (1.5A charge rate, no safety timer, no trickle). The only other NiMH packs I have that are that consistant are those Associated batts I have.

In the long run, you guys will be much happier with LiPo's, just be sure to get a good quality charger, you can get an adapter that will connect it to what-ever battery connectors you decide to use.

I would recommend replacing the EC3 connectors, all they are is 3.5mm bullets in a pretty blue case, that's too small. Go with at least 4mm bullet connectors, most people on this forum say 5.5mm, EC5 connectors have 5mm bullets, for your setup they would be fine.

Pick which connector type you like, change the connector on the ESC to that connector & get batteries that also have that type of connector, or change what ever the battery came with to your connector choice.

Lenny suggested LiPo's, in a addition to higher power density, they are also much less weight.

I have 2 of these... http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...ssing%20Data** - actual weight on postal scale = 10.10ozs

Also have 2 of these... http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...ssing%20Data** - actual weight on postal scale = 14.10ozs (with Traxxas connectors)

That's a quarter pound difference!! That extra weight is a lot to the stock motor. It means it has to work much harder to make the boat go the same speed.

The ESC in that boat is the same as the one that came with my SW26V3 (http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdId=PRB0600), it does not support LiPo's, that's why lenny told you to time your runs.

Here's an easier way... http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...rm_2s_4s_.html - plug the balance wire from the LiPo battery into this device and it will sound alarm & flash the lights when you get to 3.3v/cell. That tells you it's time to bring your boat to shore and change batteries.

HK has a couple other models to choose from too - pick out which ever one you like best.

Hope that helps you guys out - happy boating

[yogix]

...my battery is Dynamite Speedpack 2400mAh Ni-MH 6-Cell Flat with EC3 Connector so I guess I would need a new charger...
My Shockwave 26V3 came with the exact same battery & charger as the MG24's, there both worthless piece of sh*t. PB put them with the boat so beginners can go to the lake right away.

You need to get a good quality charger that can do Lipo's, you can get an adapter that will connect it to what-ever battery connectors you decide to use.

Lenny told you to go with higher mAh packs because that is the main thing that gives longer runtimes.

If you like EC3 connectors fine, get batteries with that kind of connector. Or change the connector on the ESC to what-ever type connectors you like... Traxxas, 4 or 5mm bullets, etc. But it's a good idea to decide which one you like, then change your ESC connector & get batteries with the kind of connector you choose.

Lenny suggested LiPo's, in a addition to higher power density, they are also much less weight.

I have 2 of these... http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...ssing%20Data** - actual weight on postal scale = 10.10ozs

Also have 2 of these... http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...ssing%20Data** - actual weight on postal scale = 14.10ozs (with Traxxas connectors)

That's a quarter pound difference!! That extra weight is a lot to the stock motor. It means it has to work much harder to make the boat go the same speed.

The ESC in that boat is the same as the one that came with my SW26V3 (http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdId=PRB0600), it does not support LiPo's, that's why lenny told you to time your runs.

Here's an easier way... http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...rm_2s_4s_.html - plug the balance wire from the LiPo battery into this device and it will sound alarm & flash the lights when you get to 3.3v/cell. That tells you it's time to bring your boat to shore and change batteries.

HK has a couple other models to choose from too - pick out which ever one you like best.

Hope that helps you guys out - happy boating

Thanks. I see a few warnings about fires caused from LiPos. Are there particular makes to stay clear of?

[lenny]

Just stay with a C rate of 30c or higher for lipo's,
And look on hear and see what is working for other on hear.
Just do your home work on handling the lipo's and you should be fine,
Hears some info for you to read and learn about stuff.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17907405&postcount=3

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/info.php

http://www.tjinguytech.com/

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...-by-ReddyWatts.

http://www.fastelectrics.net/

[J.W. Pepper]

Hey Lenny...
In this thread... http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...hockwave-V3-BL - the OP asked if this battery... http://www.valuehobby.com/power-syst...ah-3s-trx.html - would be ok for sport boating.

I replied "Will that battery work? Yes, would I use it, no. Nothing less than 30C for boats - higher (40C +) for hotter setups / racing".

You said 25C would be fine, just check temps.

Now your saying 30C minimum, what gives??

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing (read my recent posts, I only say good things bout you), just trying to figure out why the conflicting info

For the record, I still stand by my 30C minimum for boats recommendation & practice what I preach... all my boat packs are 30C - I don't race or run high current setups. Have 7x 2S Bashers + those two 3S's, goofy name but great packs. Becuz mAh & C rating is the same, I can use them for 5S in my IM31.

I use the Onyx 5700's (25C) for my pede, they run cool to the touch, bottom of 8.4v humps get hot as hell. Have LVC set to 3.2v/cell per you recommendation, when the truck stops CellMatch tells me 3.5v/cell, probably cuz of the slight bounce back common with LiPo's.

Just stay with a C rate of 30c or higher for lipo's,
And look on hear and see what is working for other on hear.
Just do your home work on handling the lipo's and you should be fine,
Hears some info for you to read and learn about stuff.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17907405&postcount=3

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/info.php

http://www.tjinguytech.com/

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...-by-ReddyWatts.
http://www.fastelectrics.net/

[lenny]

The op in this post is looking to mod the setup in his boat,
So with modding 30c would be the better way to go or higher.

Like I said,
25c and and that stock boat will work fine.
It is a low amp draw setup and the esc calls for no lower than 20c cells.
I have tested 25c cells in just about all of my boats and have had no problems with them,
You just need to have the boat setup right and running smooth.
And yes the more C you have the more power you have when it comes to FE setup.

[J.W. Pepper]

Lenny is very smart about LiPo's, when I first started using them he helped me the same way he is trying to help you guys. Follow the links he gave you in post #11, there is a lot good information there.

Most of the fires you hear about & see vids on YouTube are because of stupid people who do not read or follow the instructions & proper safey measures. Some of those fires are on purpose becuase somebody was bored and had nothing better to do.

There seems to be mixed feelings about those "LiPo safety bags". Apparently there is a lot of difference in the quality, more money does not always mean better quality. A cheap bag isn't really going to help much if a fire does start. Probably better to buy those at your hobby store instead of the internet so you can see it in person before you buy it.

The main thing with LiPo's is: read and follow ALL instructions, NEVER leave a LiPo battery un-attended while it is charging. Do not charge at more than 1C, 1C = mAh of battery x 1, example: 5000mAh battery, 1C = 5A charge rate, or less if your anal like me, I charge at 1/2C or less.

Only use good quality chargers, not those cheap piece of sh*t like you see on eBay and most of the ones HobbyKing & HobbyPartz sells. The DuraTrax Onyx 235 is a good budget charger, doesn't have a lot of special / advanced features, just charges & balance's the battery.

If you want features like: discharging, safe storage mode & so on, then you need to speed some extra money and get something like these...

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVRS6&P=ML

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZMX6&P=7#tech

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVZA8&P=SM

I found this one last night... http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...rodID=EFLC3025 - has a lot of useful features and it only costs $100(USD).

I also found some Hyperion chargers last night, forgot where, but they are also good quality and the prices are reasonable, about $100~$125(USD). They too have some of the more advanced features like the E-flite charger.

About makes of batteries... here is an excellent thread with tons of good info on batteries... http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...s-for-the-buck - people talk about batteries they have good luck with and ones that are not so good. The main focus is on affordable batteries that are also good quality.

Alot of people in that thread and on other forums say good things about Gens Ace. Alot of people also like Sky LiPo (and some don't), but HobbyPartz has been out of them forever.

Ok, that should be enough info to keep you guys busy for awhile.

Please be careful & safe so you can enjoy your boat hobby.

Thanks. I see a few warnings about fires caused from LiPos. Are there particular makes to stay clear of?

[yogix]

Lenny is very smart about LiPo's, when I first started using them he helped me the same way he is trying to help you guys. Follow the links he gave you in post #11, there is a lot good information there.

Most of the fires you hear about & see vids on YouTube are because of stupid people who do not read or follow the instructions & proper safey measures. Some of those fires are on purpose becuase somebody was bored and had nothing better to do.

There seems to be mixed feelings about those "LiPo safety bags". Apparently there is a lot of difference in the quality, more money does not always mean better quality. A cheap bag isn't really going to help much if a fire does start. Probably better to buy those at your hobby store instead of the internet so you can see it in person before you buy it.

The main thing with LiPo's is: read and follow ALL instructions, NEVER leave a LiPo battery un-attended while it is charging. Do not charge at more than 1C, 1C = mAh of battery x 1, example: 5000mAh battery, 1C = 5A charge rate, or less if your anal like me, I charge at 1/2C or less.

Only use good quality chargers, not those cheap piece of sh*t like you see on eBay and most of the ones HobbyKing & HobbyPartz sells. The DuraTrax Onyx 235 is a good budget charger, doesn't have a lot of special / advanced features, just charges & balance's the battery.

If you want features like: discharging, safe storage mode & so on, then you need to speed some extra money and get something like these...

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVRS6&P=ML

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZMX6&P=7#tech

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVZA8&P=SM

I found this one last night... http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...rodID=EFLC3025 - has a lot of useful features and it only costs $100(USD).

I also found some Hyperion chargers last night, forgot where, but they are also good quality and the prices are reasonable, about $100~$125(USD). They too have some of the more advanced features like the E-flite charger.

About makes of batteries... here is an excellent thread with tons of good info on batteries... http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...s-for-the-buck - people talk about batteries they have good luck with and ones that are not so good. The main focus is on affordable batteries that are also good quality.

Alot of people in that thread and on other forums say good things about Gens Ace. Alot of people also like Sky LiPo (and some don't), but HobbyPartz has been out of them forever.

Ok, that should be enough info to keep you guys busy for awhile.

Please be careful & safe so you can enjoy your boat hobby.

Loving all the helpful advice on this forum. Glad I read this before purchasing a cheap charger off eBay!

I'm now looking around for a battery, charger, motor but trying to get some tips on what to choose. Being a newbie to everything RC I am quite enjoying finding out new things everyday. For instance yesterday I found out that I can get a water cooled jacket for a motor! Sounds basic but when I was looking at motors I was wondering how the pipes attach to it!