My new Sniper mono 1st run video

[Brushless55]

I do not agree that FE is suffering because clubs do not welcome it. Plain and simple I think it is cost.

As a direct comparison look at my two Snipers:

FE Version with one set of 10S2P packs = +/- $3,000
Gas version with race mod motor and pipe = +/- $1,200

Then throw in maybe another set of packs for the FE version, chargers (you need 2 to race = 4 packs), maybe a generator to charge with, etc. and you can be over $5,000 in a heart beat.

Then throw in the run time differences and for most guys that does it. Even with a smaller boat, say P mono the cost is still high and the run time low.

Most guys simply do not see that has a way to go.

Plus many people simply prefer the larger gas boats, which given the lower cost compared to large FE boats makes them even more appealing.

I agree with you...

FE cost some bucks

[sailr]

I agree about the cost to set up a large FE. On the other hand, setting up a Delta Force 33 on 4S, which is a competitive class will be just a little more than the cost of a hot dog nitro engine like a CMB, etc. Add the cost of high nitro fuel at $60/gallon and it gets cheaper every time you run. As far as run time, my 4P mono will run plenty long enough to finish a heat. What more do you want?

Not that many people running the BIG FE's so I'm basing my comments on the other classes. For entry level, the Supervee and UL-1 boats are quicker out of the box than nitro equivalents with the cheapo nitro motors in them.

If I wanted to run a big boat, I would go gas for sure! Totally agree about that!

I do not agree that FE is suffering because clubs do not welcome it. Plain and simple I think it is cost.

As a direct comparison look at my two Snipers:

FE Version with one set of 10S2P packs = +/- $3,000
Gas version with race mod motor and pipe = +/- $1,200

Then throw in maybe another set of packs for the FE version, chargers (you need 2 to race = 4 packs), maybe a generator to charge with, etc. and you can be over $5,000 in a heart beat.

Then throw in the run time differences and for most guys that does it. Even with a smaller boat, say P mono the cost is still high and the run time low.

Most guys simply do not see that has a way to go.

Plus many people simply prefer the larger gas boats, which given the lower cost compared to large FE boats makes them even more appealing.

[Bill-SOCAL]

I agree about the nitro costs, which I think is another reason that nitro is suffering. Out here gas is growing and nitro is falling off. Gas boats are bigger, fast, easy to tune, and cheap to build and run.

I can go to a race, run 5 or 6 classes, 4 heats each (24 heats) and spend about 5 bucks in fuel costs. Plus it only takes 30 seconds to refuel between heats.

And like I said, it seems that given the choice most people prefer the bigger boats. Six 54-inch Thunderboats doing 55 mph on a 1/6th mile oval are something to see!!!

[sailr]

The big gassers are exciting for sure! But where do you get Cheap? Isn't a truly competitive reworked engine approaching $1,000? Then the cost of hardware for the big guys adds at least another $300.

If you're gonna run gas, get a 5 gallon can and go to your local small airport and buy avgas. NO ETHANOL to eat up the pump diaphragm, seals, o'rings, etc. in the walbro!

Fun ain't cheap unless you're into horseshoes!

I agree about the nitro costs, which I think is another reason that nitro is suffering. Out here gas is growing and nitro is falling off. Gas boats are bigger, fast, easy to tune, and cheap to build and run.

I can go to a race, run 5 or 6 classes, 4 heats each (24 heats) and spend about 5 bucks in fuel costs. Plus it only takes 30 seconds to refuel between heats.

And like I said, it seems that given the choice most people prefer the bigger boats. Six 54-inch Thunderboats doing 55 mph on a 1/6th mile oval are something to see!!!

[Bill-SOCAL]

The big gassers are exciting for sure! But where do you get Cheap? Isn't a truly competitive reworked engine approaching $1,000? Then the cost of hardware for the big guys adds at least another $300.

Well, I posted the cost comparison for my Snipers, one gas, one FE.

Competitive race motors (based on Zenoah 260PUM) can be had for $600 with mounts. Figure $700 to $750 with a good pipe/header.

Thunderboats run dead stock motors. My 260PUM cost me $200. Add pipe and header for a total of $375.

Hardware runs about $150 to $175.

I never said it was cheap in the absolute sense, but it is cheaper to be sure. And as an airplane guy you know there is no comparison. A good giant scale IMAC plane can set you back $8K to $10K in a heartbeat. Even a top level thermal duration glider is going to run you$2K or more!!

If you're gonna run gas, get a 5 gallon can and go to your local small airport and buy avgas. NO ETHANOL to eat up the pump diaphragm, seals, o'rings, etc. in the walbro!

A few guys are starting to run avgas due to the ethanol and odor issues. Around me it averages closer to $4 to 4.50 per gallon versus +/- $3 a gallon for unleaded regular.

[sailr]

Good info! Maybe there's a gasser in my future! I didn't know the thunderboats run stock engines! That's a biggie for sure. Is that the 1/8 scale hydro class?

I keep seeing large hardware sets for a lot more but then I haven't really shopped well for them either.

I agree you can't compare IMAC birds to boats! The number of digital servos, redundant radios, power centers, $2000 radio, etc. The cheapest part is the airplane!

The extra buck or two for the gas is well worth it!! Higher octane too. Might pick up a few revs!

Good discussion. Thanks!

Well, I posted the cost comparison for my Snipers, one gas, one FE.

Competitive race motors (based on Zenoah 260PUM) can be had for $600 with mounts. Figure $700 to $750 with a good pipe/header.

Thunderboats run dead stock motors. My 260PUM cost me $200. Add pipe and header for a total of $375.

Hardware runs about $150 to $175.

I never said it was cheap in the absolute sense, but it is cheaper to be sure. And as an airplane guy you know there is no comparison. A good giant scale IMAC plane can set you back $8K to $10K in a heartbeat. Even a top level thermal duration glider is going to run you$2K or more!!



A few guys are starting to run avgas due to the ethanol and odor issues. Around me it averages closer to $4 to 4.50 per gallon versus +/- $3 a gallon for unleaded regular.

[Flying Scotsman]

Agreed Bill, it is the cost factor. I like both methods of powering the hull, but I like electric as people do not get angry with the noise in areas which are populated

Douggie

[Bill-SOCAL]

Noise is absolutely an issue for both boats and planes alike. I feel very strongly that as we move forward that electric is going to become the only viable option for many flying fields and lakes.

I love my electric stuff. My electric pattern plane is a thing of silent beauty. Amusingly enough, at the patterns NATS which just ended they actually had an electric plane fail the sound test!! Go figure.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Good info! Maybe there's a gasser in my future! I didn't know the thunderboats run stock engines! That's a biggie for sure. Is that the 1/8 scale hydro class?

Nope. Thunderboats are a class that both NAMBA and IMPBA run with some minor rules differences. IMPBA allows a few other stock motors and a slightly smaller hull as a minimum (NAMBA is 48 inches, IMPBA is less than that). Here are the NAMBA T-Boat rules:

1. CLASSIC THUNDERBOAT
a. Hull Specifications

i) The boat may be of wood or fiberglass construction.
ii) The hull length will be between 48” – 56”.
iii) The hull width will be a minimum of 24”.
iv) The transom will be a minimum of 10” in width.
v) The hull design will only be one of the following types: round nose,
step deck, or chisel nose.
vi) Nothing on the boat may be further than 5 1/4" behind the transom.

b. Motor Specifications
i) Engines will be a Zenoah G260 PUM. The Engine may run a stock
257 carburetor. No internal modifications are allowed. All
replacement parts must be from the original manufacturer and thesame type engine (Zenoah 260 to Zenoah 260). No part swapping
from other manufacturers or engine types is permitted.
ii) Any pipe combo may be used. The pipe and muffler must be inside
the boat and exit through the transom.

c. Appearance
i) The boat must have a sponsored paint scheme with sponsored IDs
and U numbers on the boat.
ii) The boat must have a driver in a front or rear cockpit. The driver
must be a scale of 1/8 to 1/6 in relationship to the size of the boat.
iii) The boat must run with an engine cowling or dummy engine to cover
as much of the boat’s engine as possible.

I keep seeing large hardware sets for a lot more but then I haven't really shopped well for them either.

Insane boats are one of the more popular hulls out there. Here are their hardware sets:

http://www.insaneboats.com/index.php?option=com_oscommerce&osMod=index&Itemid=82&cPath=5&osCsid=258657e74661f1753eee9adbb4101cd

The extra buck or two for the gas is well worth it!! Higher octane too. Might pick up a few revs!

There are a lot of very well know engine guys that say that higher octane in the marine race motors does not really make a big difference. Has to do with the rate of ignition and rpm band.

[Chilli]

I'll admit and Bill already knows that economics also played a part in my doing a gas boat. Can I swing the cost for a big FE to kick the crap out of the gassers? Yes, but that’s allot of money to prove a point. For now I'll try and accomplish this on a smaller scale. For small/mid sized boats and anything that can run with two packs or less, I'll take FE over nitro every time.

In my opinion allot of the perceived FE negativity is just ignorance and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. Sure, there is always someone who runs his mouth before he thinks, but I think most gas guys just don't know what FE's are cable of. If I had a dime every time I heard "wow, that boats fast for an electric", I could afford a fleet of 10S boats. But also there are few in the gas community that do know what brushless motors and Lipos have to offer because they run brushless helos and planes. I have a few of these guys in my club and a few have told me they wanted to try out boats, but there is no one to race against.

And I know this has been discussed before, but it bears repeating. If you want to get into racing and your local club doesn’t run FE's. Join the club any way. No one is going to listen to you if you’re not a club member. Be an active member, laugh off any dumb remarks, run a few novice races, be prepared and bring your "A" game. If you can get a few more to join the club, that would be even better. Then you will put yourself in a position to be heard. The rewards will far outweigh the effort
!!!

[bustitup]

It sounds like you guys are trying to defend your decition to go gas

I dont know why...I think gassers are awesome

they sound cool
the bigger boats are awesome
they run like what seems forever
some are ultra fast
cheaper to build and maintain


Whats not to like?

[Brushless55]

It sounds like you guys are trying to defend your decition to go gas

I dont know why...I think gassers are awesome

they sound cool
the bigger boats are awesome
they run like what seems forever
some are ultra fast
cheaper to build and maintain


Whats not to like?

I love watchin the big gas cats..
with the right pipe they sound just plain mean!

[Bill-SOCAL]

It sounds like you guys are trying to defend your decition to go gas

Not trying to justify anything on my part, just laying out the reality of the situation. There is one FE race within a thousand miles of my house each year, so it seems to me that gas makes sense. The rest are just the reality of gas boats versus electric.

[kevinlew211]

I dont mind your guys jacking my threat, but dont mess it up....Pleaseee

[Bill-SOCAL]

Sorry about that!! One thing leads to another!!

But in the end.... SNIPERS RULE!!!!!