Newbie here looking for next boat

**fweasel** · 08-08-2023, 09:03 AM

First off, don't waste a single dollar on anything MaxxAmps sells. One of the worst lipo batteries on the market as proven countless times in independent testing. Not to mention, overpriced.

The Zonda would run okay in that water, but you'd never be able to realize it's speed potential, which would be frustrating, and ultimately lead to a lot of flipping and rescues. The 56 Genesis handles great and was one of my favorite RTR boats ever, but it's big and needs room to run. Not sure how deep the water is at that little lake when it nears the shore and if you'd be able to loop around behind those trees in the distance. But to just zip zip back and forth like you were with the M41, the big Genesis would not be ideal.

**TonyM995** · 08-08-2023, 01:30 PM

Hi Ryan! Oh wow I didn?t know that about Max Amps.

The water gets deep fast. The water level is so high and those trees used to be the shoreline. For full size boats the speed limit is around 50 mph and I park at that location because the water is so close to the parking lot. The coves like that are often more smooth than that day.

Chatfield reservoir is the location.

Chatfield State Park

https://cpw.state.co.us/placestogo/parks/Chatfield

Float your boat in the lake, bicycle or hike on a trail that provides scenic views of the neighboring foothills and Platte River valley, camp, ride a horse and even fly a model airplane - all at Chatfield State Park, nestled next to the foothills southwest of Denver.

What are some non RTR boats I could look at?

**fweasel** · 08-08-2023, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by TonyM995

Hi Ryan! Oh wow I didn?t know that about Max Amps.

The water gets deep fast. The water level is so high and those trees used to be the shoreline. For full size boats the speed limit is around 50 mph and I park at that location because the water is so close to the parking lot. The coves like that are often more smooth than that day.

Chatfield reservoir is the location.

Chatfield State Park

https://cpw.state.co.us/placestogo/parks/Chatfield

Float your boat in the lake, bicycle or hike on a trail that provides scenic views of the neighboring foothills and Platte River valley, camp, ride a horse and even fly a model airplane - all at Chatfield State Park, nestled next to the foothills southwest of Denver.

What are some non RTR boats I could look at?

Well, non-RTR would be anything you build yourself, starting with an empty hull and pockets full of money. Sky is the limit.

The Zonda hull made by DYmotorshop comes as an empty hull, hull & hardware, or as a RTR with electronics. Or you can make the jump up to an MHZ114 hull. MHZ sells a ARTR version or empty hull too.

**TonyM995** · 08-09-2023, 05:55 PM

You mentioned a Genesis wouldn?t be ideal. I read that as a 56? boat wouldn?t be ideal.

Any thoughts on what would be a better fit?

The MHZ looks similar enough that I?m thinking since this would be my first fast boat, a more cost effective option like the Genesis would be a good idea to start with. I?ve got $2500 in two boats as it is so to have that in one seems like a reasonable step up.

I?ll keep reading the forums and appreciate any and all thoughts.

**fweasel** · 08-09-2023, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by TonyM995

You mentioned a Genesis wouldn?t be ideal. I read that as a 56? boat wouldn?t be ideal.

Any thoughts on what would be a better fit?

The MHZ looks similar enough that I?m thinking since this would be my first fast boat, a more cost effective option like the Genesis would be a good idea to start with. I?ve got $2500 in two boats as it is so to have that in one seems like a reasonable step up.

I?ll keep reading the forums and appreciate any and all thoughts.

It looks like that body of water is a little tight for a 56" cat, like the large Genesis. TFL also makes the Genesis in a 37" hull as both a single and twin, but that's smaller than what you're running now.

**TonyM995** · 08-10-2023, 04:24 PM

I went out on lunch today and just paddled out beyond the trees. More than enough room but I’m generally too lazy to walk that far for the traxxas because it’s not needed for that boat but the range was a lot more than I realized. Traxxas says “long range” but that’s ambiguous.

TFL said it’s $1344 and $469 for FedEx. $1813 plus batteries/remote.

Obviously cheaper but it seems the esc doesn’t have any lipo cut off protection. Is that accurate or do they have protection so I don’t burn up $400 in batteries?

for RTR I found an Arrow Shark for $3866. Just over double but the quality appears higher than anything else RTR I’ve seen. It still needs batteries/radio but if it’s worth it then I’ll consider it.

GX58E-Twin Electric ARTR_Black Diamond GX-58_Electric RTR & ARTR_Arrow Shark RC Marine

https://www.arrowshark.com/2020/goods.php?id=398#none

my thought is if the Genesis is good enough to learn on then it makes sense to learn there. Because I have little experience it wouldn’t make sense to jump to the highest level of equipment if I don’t have the experience/skills to use it without destroying it, then no need to spend the extra money.

Does this apply to all boats? I don’t use full throttle so the esc/motor can cool off with water flow.
“DO NOT OPERATE THIS BOAT AT PARTIAL THROTTLE FOR EXTENDED TIMES. THIS IS A HIGH PERFORMANCE BOAT INTENDED TO GO FAST. CRUISING SLOW OR AT PARTIAL THROTTLE FOR EXTENDED TIMES WILL SEVERELY DAMAGE THE ESC!”
https://oxideanmarine.com/products/o...-carbon-kevlar

I’d love to have other people to run these with but I don’t so that’s that. I read two 50 mph boats is more fun than a 100 mph boat.

**TonyM995** · 08-10-2023, 04:26 PM

Pictures from today:

IMG_8579.jpg

IMG_8580.jpg

**Xrayted** · 08-10-2023, 07:19 PM

Yes, its is inefficient to run ANY brushless motor/ESC at partial throttle in any RC vehicle. Brushless motors and ESCs are most efficient at or near 100% duty cycle, and need to be configured to the way that you intend to run the model.

This is because the full voltage from the battery is always there, and the PWM signal needs to "chop" that full voltage into smaller pieces at lower throttle to slow the boat, and that creates excessive heat as that energy needs to go somewhere. Think of what PWM is doing as a light switch. The full voltage is still being sent to the light, but you can either slowly flip the light switch on/off and get a dimmer light, or you could switch in on/off rapidly so that it appears normal as if always on.

That's what your esc is doing at all times, and it creates something called battery ripple which is the drop in voltage between the on and off PWM cycle. This ripple if too high is an electronics killer and can cause things to burn. The capacitors on the ESC are there to help smooth out and reduce the ripple, but they can be overwhelmed and fail with a bad setup, possibly causing the ESC to light up and burn.

Ripple is lowest at zero and 100% throttle, and absolutely the worst at 50% throttle because now the on cycle is just as long as the off cycle. Its very important to choose the correct KV motor for the RPM and prop you want to run, as using the throttle to slow down a too fast boat with too high a KV is going to get things hotter than they need to be. Its doesnt mean that you always have to run wide open, but you dont want to just be slow cruising around all the time because you dont have enough space and boat is too fast for the pond. In this case you will be better off to drop to lower voltage packs, for example using 4-5 cell lipos on a boat that was built for 6S. This way the boat is slower and easier to manage, and the throttle can stay wide open most of the time

Also consider that some FE boats need at least 30 MPH just to get proper water feed for cooling, and running them too slow added to the ESC inefficiency becomes a double whammy working against you

**TonyM995** · 08-11-2023, 09:47 AM

Thank you so much! That’s wildly helpful, I saw the capacitors and never thought about why they are there. This is why I would be very hesitant about buying an expensive ($4k+) boat. Also I’m building a turbo 2022 Hayabusa and that’s not cheap.

This is awesome and that comment is really going to help me enjoy the hobby more because now I don’t have to feel bad about holding it wide open.

The Genesis 56 feels like a winner for my use case. Any suggestions on what connectors I should use? They have the bullet connectors and said I can pick a different one when I asked about it.

Any other questions I should ask myself or you guys before pulling the trigger? Should I get a single engine or twin engine? I was going to go with the twin but if the twin is a pain or if I get almost the same performance/fun then I’d be cool with saving even more money hahaha.

It would be nice to order something that’s already in the US but I’m not going to pay $500 more to get it 4 weeks sooner.

**Xrayted** · 08-11-2023, 09:54 AM

I use large, 8mm connectors in all of my FE boats. And even then the wires and connectors will be hot, but this is normal as even 8-10G wires are not meant to have 150-300 amps flowing for minutes at a time. Smaller bullets only increase the resistance and cause things to be even hotter. https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...d=ose-qs8-anti

Single vs dual motor setup is just a personal choice up until a certain point where they are so big and heavy. You almost always see big CATS setup as a twin. A single setup can be just as fast a dual setup on smaller boats up to around 40" or so. Yes you have twice the motor, but you also have the added weight of twice the ESC and batteries

**TonyM995** · 08-11-2023, 10:01 AM

Perfect thank you! That looks like the xt90 connector that came on the Thrasher v3 I spent $1500 on and it’sa nice boat but not my speed.

After I replied I’m thinking that I’d like to just get a single engine boat that’s in the US so I can just order it and start playing and keep learning. It’s less complexity and there is already so much to learn. My next boat not likely to be my last and I enjoy learning these technical details that you’ve shared.

Any thoughts on a place in the US with boats in stock that anyone can suggest? Thanks again for the conversation, I really enjoy how much knowledge this forum is filled with.

**Xrayted** · 08-11-2023, 10:09 AM

I would also suggest that you consider a mono to begin with, as that hull design can handle rough water at speed without flipping near as easily as a cat. Fast cats need fairly smooth water, and they don't typically turn well at speed and will hook and roll over. You will spend more time going out to rescue it than you will a mono that is more forgiving, but can still be very fast so possibly less frustration as you learn.

I have TFL Ariane 36" mono bought from the same guy in the link above I provided for the connectors that does 80 MPH with a motor and prop swap, but is in the 55 MPH range with the stock setup which is still fast and a blast to run. Steve is also the owner of this forum. He does have some RTR models available. You will have anything from him within a week typically

https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...s+RTR+%26+ARTR

**Xrayted** · 08-11-2023, 10:14 AM

Double post

**TonyM995** · 08-11-2023, 10:38 AM

That looks like a great next step. Opposite of what I thought I wanted but I’m not above that boat and it looks perfect to learn on, tune, and modify.

This one right?
https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...24L-F-4092-180
IMG_8586.jpg

Newbie here looking for next boat

Newbie here looking for next boat

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