Dr Super-Evil (Hydro 2) tuning

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  • Ivan Kozyakov
    Member
    • Apr 2022
    • 81

    #1

    Dr Super-Evil (Hydro 2) tuning

    Hi guys!


    I have a boat Dr Super-Evil by Hydro&Marine. This is my first outrigger. The first tests showed a speed of 92 km/h and I would like to improve this result to 120 km/h. I will be glad to your advice.


    Сurrent setup:


    4082 2000Kv SSS motor
    180A Seaking ESC
    6s 5000mAh 100C battery (2*3s)
    45mm 1.4 Tenshock prop
    Weight with batteries 1980g.
  • larryrose11
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 757

    #2
    With such a kigh KV motor, that is going to pull a lot of amps.
    What brand of battery? the c ratings are worthless. I would look at the battery testing on the RC groups.


    Also, props are everything.
    Consider an ABC propeller. For the same dia and pitch, the ABC Prop will outperform the CNC prop.
    Cheetah, Super Rio, (Mod) Starship (Mod and sold),

    Comment

    • Ivan Kozyakov
      Member
      • Apr 2022
      • 81

      #3
      Thanks for your reply. I use batteries almost new HRB and new Gaoneng.

      After driving at maximum rpm the motor, ESC and battery are warm, no more than 50C degrees.

      I also thought about replacing the prop with a better one. If I buy several props in which direction should I move? Larger or smaller diameter?

      Comment

      • larryrose11
        Senior Member
        • Jun 2010
        • 757

        #4
        Get any of the top 4 batteries here, whatever will fit:

        If you don't see a speed boost from that, the batteries are not what slowing you down.

        on Props, I like the ABC-xxxx-10-50 series props. "10" in this is the rake.
        The other popular ABC props have a 15 deg rake, which tightens the thrust cone, and provides less lift.
        Buy one from DasBota, on here. Great work.
        The Dr Evil does not have a ski like the JAE, so it likely can benifit from more prop lift.
        Larger prop will def move faster, but so will increasing the pitch
        ABC 1816-10-50, (45.7 dia, 1.6 pitch) ) , or ABC 1818-10-50 (45.7 dia,1.8 pitch) will push it good!!
        Cheetah, Super Rio, (Mod) Starship (Mod and sold),

        Comment

        • Ivan Kozyakov
          Member
          • Apr 2022
          • 81

          #5
          Thank you. I will also practice sharpen and polishing the current CNC prop + rudder and see if there is any speed gain.

          Comment

          • Fluid
            Fast and Furious
            • Apr 2007
            • 8012

            #6
            The OP?s setup is drastically underperforming. This could be caused by any or a combination of the following

            - poor battery output
            - poor motor performance
            - incorrect ESC setting
            - poor alignment of the driveline
            - inappropriate prop
            - incorrect prop depth/angle
            - incorrect CG position

            A 45 mm diameter prop is too small for a 39? rigger, as demonstrated by the low speed and relatively low temperatures of the components. This is a high performance hydroplane, not a draggy mono. The current prop is not a modern design and its efficiency will be poor if over-spun. I would start with a 50-52 mm two-bladed prop having a pitch ratio of 1.4 to 1.5. This should give ample speed, but watch out for higher temps - any in the above list could help to spike temps so check after one minute if running. Max temp should not exceed 50*C after one minute of mostly full-throttle running. Use a timer.

            Let us know how it works out.



            .

            .
            ERROR 403 - This is not the page you are looking for

            Comment

            • Ivan Kozyakov
              Member
              • Apr 2022
              • 81

              #7
              Originally posted by Fluid
              The OP?s setup is drastically underperforming. This could be caused by any or a combination of the following

              - poor battery output
              - poor motor performance
              - incorrect ESC setting
              - poor alignment of the driveline
              - inappropriate prop
              - incorrect prop depth/angle
              - incorrect CG position


              Dear Fluid,

              - poor battery output - yes, I will try anoter new pack
              - poor motor performance - the motor is new and even too powerful for this model as i think
              - incorrect ESC setting - do you mean timing?
              - poor alignment of the driveline - the flex shaft is installed with a minimum bend, it rotates easily
              - inappropriate prop - agree
              - incorrect prop depth/angle - strictly according to the H&M recommendations, but I will test other options
              - incorrect CG position - now its at 25% from skids end to transom. This is already more than requires H&M, but I will try even more.
              Last edited by Ivan Kozyakov; 02-20-2023, 10:23 AM.

              Comment

              • vvviivvv
                Fast Electric Addict!
                • May 2009
                • 1078

                #8
                Just for reference... here is the same hull doing 2x the speed... it does have Saw sponsons.

                Hpr 06 / 09 / 150 /185, Mhz Skater H45 hydro.
                Uk SAW record holder

                Comment

                • Ivan Kozyakov
                  Member
                  • Apr 2022
                  • 81

                  #9
                  Originally posted by vvviivvv
                  Just for reference... here is the same hull doing 2x the speed... it does have Saw sponsons.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxHsYSLvqNY
                  Yes, I understand potential of this hull so why i have started the thread
                  Saw sponsons it's the next part of this project.

                  Comment

                  • larryrose11
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 757

                    #10
                    Ivan,
                    Sorry to lead you down the wrong path on the Prop size.
                    Follow what Fluid says, something 50-52 mm two-bladed prop having a pitch ratio of 1.4 to 1.5.
                    At the same time, the ABC props are more efficient than the CNC prop of similar size and pitch. They have yielded more speed compared with a similar CNC Prop
                    Cheetah, Super Rio, (Mod) Starship (Mod and sold),

                    Comment

                    • NativePaul
                      Greased Weasel
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 2760

                      #11
                      I have one of these, its 900mm, or just under 36" including the H&M sponson extensions, has quite a lot of aero lift, and isn't very heavy, it doesn't take as much pushing as a 39" hydro made for sprint racing will, 45mm is the prop we typically race these on.

                      I run mine on 6s 1500kv and an ABC 1815-45-17 for about 100kph with 6 minute races on 120Wh of energy. Tenshocks are decent props and a more common setup for it would be 1650kv with a Tenshock 45 for similar speeds, power, and efficiency.

                      It is undeperforming though considering the lower speeds with the higher KV and the same prop, I think you could get a lot more from basic setup changes, I gained a lot of speed from mine by raising the strut (flat on a setup board with the top of the strut about 3mm below the tub) and increasing the AoA on the sponsons (not sure how high an angle, but I had to mod the boom extensions to get it high enough. I also have a ski now, but that was not a huge difference like the strut and AoA was.

                      Batteries would be my other thought 100C batteries dont exist so we know their quoted C rate is BS, try tuning the setup and if that doesnt get you where you want to be follow Larry's advice and get some that test well from the guys on RCGroups.
                      Paul Upton-Taylor, Greased Weasel Racing.

                      Comment

                      • Ivan Kozyakov
                        Member
                        • Apr 2022
                        • 81

                        #12
                        Originally posted by larryrose11
                        Ivan,
                        Sorry to lead you down the wrong path on the Prop size.
                        Follow what Fluid says, something 50-52 mm two-bladed prop having a pitch ratio of 1.4 to 1.5.
                        At the same time, the ABC props are more efficient than the CNC prop of similar size and pitch. They have yielded more speed compared with a similar CNC Prop
                        larryrose11, thank you for your attention to this thread. I like your idea about ABC props (and I heard it from other sportsmans) that ABC props with higher pitch will lift the transom which hydro boats need.
                        I have already ordered a new copy of the ABС Prop (1817) and if the results are good I will order the original. https://aliexpress.ru/item/100500336...00026112986647
                        I will check both options

                        Comment

                        • larryrose11
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 757

                          #13
                          As Paul pointed out, if you looking to go fast, sponsons with less areo lift may be desired.
                          You can make your own that are narrower than the current design, or contact Cedric Lefebvre on the FB group Rc Offshore Saw. He sold a twin kit of that same tub with different sponsons.

                          Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
                          Cheetah, Super Rio, (Mod) Starship (Mod and sold),

                          Comment

                          • Ivan Kozyakov
                            Member
                            • Apr 2022
                            • 81

                            #14
                            Originally posted by NativePaul
                            I think you could get a lot more from basic setup changes, I gained a lot of speed from mine by raising the strut (flat on a setup board with the top of the strut about 3mm below the tub) and increasing the AoA on the sponsons (not sure how high an angle, but I had to mod the boom extensions to get it high enough. I also have a ski now, but that was not a huge difference like the strut and AoA was.
                            NativePaul, yes, setting up the strut and sponsons is the first thing I'll do. Thanks for your advice.

                            Comment

                            • larryrose11
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2010
                              • 757

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Ivan Kozyakov
                              larryrose11, thank you for your attention to this thread. I like your idea about ABC props (and I heard it from other sportsmans) that ABC props with higher pitch will lift the transom which hydro boats need.
                              I have already ordered a new copy of the ABС Prop (1817) and if the results are good I will order the original. https://aliexpress.ru/item/100500336...00026112986647
                              I will check both options
                              its the prop thrust cone that affect the prop lift. Since the props are surfacing, only part of the thrust cone is in the water.
                              A lower rake angle makes a wider thrust cone, and more lift.
                              The converse is true.
                              ABC Props:
                              For example a 1817-10-50(2) CLL breaks down like this.
                              1.8 is the diameter in inches.
                              1.7 Pitch Radio
                              10-RAKE ANGLE
                              50-BLADE AREA RATIO
                              (2)-NUMBER OF BLADES
                              CL-CLEAVER OR CP-CHOPPER
                              L-LEFT ROTATION OR R-RIGHT ROTATION

                              rake angle of 10 has more lift than a rake angle of 17.
                              I like the 10 degrees of rake for single riggers without a ski.
                              Cheetah, Super Rio, (Mod) Starship (Mod and sold),

                              Comment

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