Zonda twin versions 41' vs 38' (calling all Zonda nerds)

[hannhann00]

Hi guys,

I know it's well established that TFL makes variants sold by other companies (which i see no issue with, as if they're adding the value to their customers even though it's a china made boat). However i noticed that the Zonda 38' hull variety (incl the carbon kevlar version) doesn't seem to be available directly in many places at all, but is rather only available branded as the Oxidine Animal or via DYmotorshop. I like the look of the 38' a bit more due to the cleaner rear top deck.

My questions are:
- with the same electronics would there be an advantage the 41 vs the 38 version would have and if so where?
- Does the 38 (such as the one sold via DY) have the exact same hardware and struts as the 41? If so does this mean they extend a little further back beyond the transom on the 38' (which imo may look cooler, but i'm not sure what it means for balance)?
- Comparing apples for apples with the only difference being the hulls - for flat water in a SAW setting what would be fastest?

Bonus questions:
- Would a Genesis 900 trump all in a SAW setting with it's narrow hull (again with same electronics apples for apples) and would you say the Genesis is the most scale version compared to a real class 1 offshore boat.

- I've also seen ppl in other threads mention the below rudder system is not for a Zonda (?) but in the pictures below it shows the system mounted on what looks to be a Zonda (black boat pic). Can i run this on a Zonda as it's much cooler for a scaled look and if there any performance difference?

https://www.banggood.com/TFL-502B38-Simulated-Direction-Rudder-Blade-for-RC-Boat-Ship-Model-Spare-Parts-p-1813729.html?cur_warehouse=CN&rmmds=buy

[fweasel]

TFL designed, made, and still makes, the original Zonda hull. It's 1040cm in length, just a hair under 41". Fightercat rebranded it as the Fantasm. The TFL hull has very sharp ride pads, but the carbon only version was thin and needed a lot of reinforcement for SAW use. The carbon Kelvlar inlay does not inspire much confidence as I've seen photos of that hull split along the seam with the inlay delaminated cleanly.

DY Motorshop makes the "New Zonda" hull. Oxidean Marine buys the hull from them, regardless of their claims along the way. It's 980cm in length and is really just a smaller version of the original minus the rear deck features on the TFL version. I cannot speak to the build quality differences between the two as I have never seen the DYMotorshop version in person. Anecdotally, the new Zonda appears to be a stronger hull, but reinforcement is still advised for SAW use.

The DYMotorshop ARTR version uses off the shelf TFL 3/16 stingers with pedestal mounts. The OM version has gone through different revisions of the hardware offered, and the pictures on the website are a mess in regards to this specific detail. In one photo, you see an unsupported TFL singer that came on the Cheetah and ProMarine hulls. One another photo, you can see a pedestal mount. Not sure what they're shipping with now or who makes them. I recall hearing from an owner that OM made an upgraded SS part that linked the pedestal to the stinger, so perhaps its a hybrid of the TFL part.

A longer hull will be more stable at high speeds, all other factors the same. That's an over simplified statement as many other factors contribute to a hulls success on the water. Setup for example, or driver skill. I had a 27" mini Zonda that ran 92mph on a single motor and 4S voltage. Scaled down version of the original Zonda hull. It needed smooth water, but with the proper setup, it was insanely fast.

The 37" Genesis hull is very fast in a straight line. It's the least scale of the hulls mentioned here due to its narrow beam, which is what makes it a rocket. My single motor Genesis runs 90mph on 6S and 103mph on 8S. It doesn't turn well at speed, in fact, it will barrel roll if you don't slow down quite a bit, because it's so narrow.

If you go to the TFL north American website, they'll give you more specifics on the rudder than Banggood will. They'll tell you its designed for the Mini and the Genesis, not the 1140 Zonda. They make a larger version for the 56" Genesis as well.

[boredom.is.me]

fweasel, are you sure about that? The Genesis and the Daytona are identical hulls. The Daytona was, as you said, just a rebranded unit sold by Fightercat. I purchased two Daytona hulls back in 2012. Unless they the Zonda was made differently back then, it has always been a much wider hull though. I'm not trying to derail, just genuinely curious.

[fweasel]

fweasel, are you sure about that? The Genesis and the Daytona are identical hulls. The Daytona was, as you said, just a rebranded unit sold by Fightercat. I purchased two Daytona hulls back in 2012. Unless they the Zonda was made differently back then, it has always been a much wider hull though. I'm not trying to derail, just genuinely curious.

Total brain fart when I typed that. I went back and corrected my post. The Daytona, was as you said, the same as the Genesis with the exception of a small difference in the hatch opening.

[hannhann00]

thanks for the very good info... a few more questions if i may kindy ask:

- I wonder is the 38' hull would 'turn' better than the 41' given that its width appears to be the same at the 41' and thus is may have a better length x width ratio (?). Also a shame that there's not a scale looking rudder set-up for the zonda like the Genesis has (unless anyone knows of one that fits well with the scaled push/ pull system).

- What do you think is the optimum motor size/ kv for the Zonda for high speed but reliable running on 6S per side (i.e. 4082 vs 36XX at what KV)? It is a matter than you could get the same speed out of either motors but you'd just prop up or down accordingly? If so when would the larger or smaller motor option have an advantage over the other?

- For 6S speed runs is it better to have the 180amp ESC options or is the 120amp sufficient? When/ why should i consider the option upgrade to 180amp?

- Also any idea why there seems to be many ppl setting speed runs with the Zonda twin (ie 100MPH+), but why i see almost no chat on the Genesis twin hitting such high speed run numbers (esp given that most say it's fastest in a straight line)? Is it a matter that the zonda is more roomy and easy to work on (and better in overall handling) and therefore just the more common platform?

p.s.- i think the only correct i have to make is that i actually think the Genesis is the most scales hulls... I looked at the width x length ratio of the Genesis vs Zonda, and compared them to real class 1 offshore boats (MTI, Tencara, Michael Peters boats, etc) and i think the real life boats are a lot narrower than most of the model rc boats, and thus narrow boats like the Genesis are most scaled (but right do not turn well)...