Plettenberg motors and compatible ESC's?

[jingalls007]

Yes. I have 2. Also I like Terry have never had any luck with MGM. they are ridiculous to program. Way too complicated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the 370BM "S" was a 10 pole, if I'm not mistaken. Glad to know that Chinese controllers are up to the task.

[eXoNerated]

I cannot knock the TP I think the guys here have proven that. Overall id say it was the best performance to price ratio hands down but I'd be scared to make direct comparisons without them on a diagnostic bench. I think all the motors are phenomenal when you realize what it takes to make them work at the levels people see. Its amazing to see the power levels achieved. I honestly admire the Plett but like everyone else I've been totally impressed at what people have done with TP. I do think the 56 series TP has a higher rpm rating but its not as large as the Tetras I think you'll find. So that kinda makes sense. I'm sure the Plettenburg is likely underrated. Its a safe practice because if I tell a crazed racer everything it can do he'll take it right there out the bat and shorten its life. If he has a limit in mind he might not go so far and it will last longer. That equals happy boater. YAAY! I think it will be as they say. Because of the Tetras rotor being made of sheets instead of magnet just fastened to a hard shaft, as I assume a TP is. Im not sure. If it is the case the rotor loss will be less in the Plett and that will protect more the magnets from currie damage. If you take them past a point with heat u never get them back. Less heat is almost always going to allow more throughput power in the machines.

Yes, Photohoward that is absolutely correct and if you don't get it right they say user error on the return so no free repair
Isn't that so nice...

I've never tested one so I know really less than u about that side of them. I know they should have good partial throttle performance as they replace the freewheeling diode with field effect Transistors. AKA "SYNCHRONOUS RECTIFICATION". That really improves the thermal character of the inverter in the freewheeling zone and the threshold can be lower than a diode by running the fets in parallel. This brings back the better performance in the high current realm as well . It also features a very programmable brake with a much nicer braking response than an average mystery BLDC inverter. Good drives but this is how you deal with them u tell them you want it set from the factory for your motor. Send them the motor so there is no excuse on that side. They wanna be slick you gotta be slick simple as that.



But you also have SLS sinus drives and they are efficient ! You ain't seen these yet? Water cooled Totally Potted.... aint no water getting in...see the huge water inlets...... I dont like the cap array. They are too close together. The ones in the middle we be hotter than the ones on the perimeter. Not good but still a wonderful drive.

SLSi-60-360-WK http://www.sinusleistungssteller.de/en_Menue_SLS.html

Regards
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi,
Jinalls007 , you are right the 370 BM is a 10 pole motor . It has also to note that the Teras has a better magnetsystem with flux sampling wedges in the rotor . Not all esc can handle this magnetsystem even well . I would better aske Plettenberg to advice a controler that fit to the motor . i have smaller motors with such magnetsystem that run with all esc but some fit better , running cooler because of better comutation.
To akse Plettenberg you have to hurry as the strat vacation from 6 of July till 20 of July.
So i had a short phone call with Uwe Plettenberg m we know us since we start modelbuilding , and he told me that the Teras is a Biest and the only controller he say worke well are the Jeti Spin 300 and the other is the Kontronik Water cool Kosmic 200 HVI . All other is a kill you compunents.

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

Yes but the Tetras is what he has and its a 2 turn 4 pole motor. 950 Kv. I think Uwe made it More drive friendly. From all the reports MGM would not be a good choice I believe. But the seal should be similar to jeti spin 200...300 etc. The seal can time up to 30 degrees but the list no PWM adjust ability. It does list 1000 amps burst current on ZTW's site.


Regards ,
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi,
jingalls007 can decide how he wants it. This is not a small infestation and if such a controller is destroyed then nobody pays it. Or do you have a suitable controller lying around that he can test at your expense? Do you have the Teras engine and do you run it in a comparable racing boat with one of the controls you have proposed?

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

Whoa back at a 100? I said what I thought based on communication with Mathias Himmelmann (TEAM PLETTENBURG) since may 25 of this year. But Ok he can send it here my castles and APD will run it no issues no matter what it is.

See you guys I cant do this. Somewhere there is a disconnect. Even after no hating you still get sht..... Im an EE that knows absolutely nothing about
inverters.

"Sehr geehrter Herr Hargett,
vielen Dank f?r Ihre Anfrage nach hochwertigen Teilen.

Generell verkaufen wir keine Einzelteile.
Lediglich die Baugruppe Rotor oder Stator ist einzeln erh?ltlich, wenn diese zu reparaturzwecken ben?tigt werden.

Wir m?chten Sie darum bitten, dass Sie bei Ihrer Antwort, den bereits gef?hrten E-Mail Verkehr nicht abschneiden bzw. entfernen.
Please add all correspondences to further e-mails !"

~Mathias Himmlemann~ 05-25-2019

I wont post any more emails from him but we've had the conversation about the rotors
Siehst du?

My American castles have never failed driving any motor made. And the APD has All the right adjustments to be able to commission it to virtually any synchronous machine. Even the .3 gram can supply nearly 2 hp. He could send the motor and ill video that. I certainly wont buy a tetras to prove a point.
If if it has a zero crossing point the china mystery drive can run the 4 pole machine. Expensive Sinus drives would be at his limits with a 10 pole 370 at 30,00O rpm. YGE aslo cannot run as many motors as ADP and it runs Tetras with less PWM capability. APD uses a PROPRIETARY commutation algorithm but its a million dollar bet it is a sinehybrid. Its also a 40kW! drive 1200.00 USD The rotor in an of itself isn't what determines this. It is the return BEMF and weather its sinus or trapezoidal. The coils, rotor, and winding scheme all play a part.

at the end of the day getting mad is silly as Plettenburg makes their own drives. They should tell him BUY OURS anyway. That will be whats likely if you ask an open ended question. If you ask specifically about your drive you get a specific answer back about your drive. But if you ask in general common sense tells me they will say buy ours.... They wont know if it will work with the seal based on the info provided by Seal anyway.......If they dont have or know whats in the inverter or what algorithm it has they can determine nothing in concrete. I feel safe to say a trap drive can run it because it only considers the crossing points. Its not looking at flux or v/hz to make determinations how to drive best. A BLDC will run an air coil machine.

Later......

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi,
why so nervous? I asked the boss of the company and not the seller. Mr. Himmelmann does the sales and initial advice. Doesn't matter if I know the boss and He gives me this information. I don't judge whether you have any idea of electronic controllers or not. It's only in your head, so you have to get on with yourself.
I have submitted my information here and do not have to present myself as an omniscient. Better see that you build your boat you already have problems with the coupling of the motor shaft with the propeller shaft, like a beginner. I'm curious if the boat will ever run a decent stopped time at a competition and how fast it was then. But we see, you are already looking for a GPS that is easy to manipulate. No one believes GPS Speed anymore.

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

You can tell im real nervous because none of it changes what I posted on the technical side of things or the discussions. If uwe told you the seal wont run it you should post that.

double O seven you can pm me I didn't come here for this type of discussion. This violent and superior thinking heritage of his is a real bummer. Best you contact Mathias for yourself because that's who you get when you inquire with their TECHNICAL branch not UWE. U may post his response if you feel the need. Without knowing the drive it would be interesting that UWE told Christian no. That didnt happen Trust me. Ill relay Christian take on Matthias lack of knowledge about the motor as he stand beside UWE daily right away.

[email protected]

"
Guten Morgen Matthias
Wir haben einen Bootsfaden in den USA, den Christian Lucas auseinander reiBt. Der Modellierer fragt, ob das ZTW-Siegel den Tetras betreiben wird, und ich sagte ihm, dass dies wahrscheinlich der Fall ist, wenn es sich um ein echtes BLDC handelt, da es nur Kreuzungspunkte und keinen Fluss betrachtet. Ich habe Lucas sogar gesagt, dass wir ?ber den Rotor gesprochen haben. Seine Antwort an die Amerikaner. Mathias wei? nichts, was er UWE fragt und er sagt nein. Ich wei?, dass es eine L?ge ist, weil UWE keine Spezifikationen f?r den Wechselrichter hat. Christian hat einen komplexen Gott und denkt einfach, er wei? mehr als jeder andere. Ich bin ein EE und er ist ein ME, aber er ist hier und argumentiert und handelt bose. Ich bin wirklich m?de von ihm. Kannst du den Rekord klarstellen, damit ich dem Modellbauer bei den Tetras helfen kann?"

Danke
Hubert

Hast du nicht gesehen, dass das Forum das Streiten nicht mag? Wenn Sie fortfahren, seien Sie nicht sauer auf mich, wenn Sie eine Zeit?berschreitung bekommen. Aber ich habe vor, hier zu bleiben und die Boote mit den Mannern im Raum zu genieBen.


Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

For me it doesn't fit if all was supposedly said was "ITS A BEAST" why would it fry a quality 360 cont 1000 amp burst but not a 220 cont 300 amp burst or a kosmic that only has 200 cont and still not a 1000amp burst. All of them are available with water cooling that isnt special about the kosmic which also has issues with delta wound motors.... Some of these drives mentioned wont run other motors well. I know it isnt going to burn the 40 KW APD. Send it!

Ill wait for the technical staff. Because my castles will drive it too. I haven't met that undrivable motor yet with them and Ive logged >380 ampere so.....people talk smack but they are good drives and help up for years still going strong. Running hi pole counts low it dont matter. My neu outrunners are
22 pole machines!

Another thing about the seal it states as long as you were using it within its stated specs the replacement is absolutely free during the length of the factory ZTW warranty. As long as u didn't drop it, open it modify it etc. Losing your money on it isn't likely with it. What happens if the high dollars fail? U already have the seal but please make a well informed decision b4 you spend 7-800 bucks on a drive. Like i said MGM is one of the most expensive and cannot drive what a 20 dollar mystery BLDC can.



Regards
Hubert

[jingalls007]

Got an email from Pascal this morning that my motor shipped. It'll be here next week, fellers.

[eXoNerated]

Nice!
If you try the seal dont run the motor without a load. Put a small plane prop or something on there first. They try the drive. Get from them what timing it likes to like to see. Heavy loads would usually like higher timing and the opposite is true for light loads, but youll start somewhere in the middle if you get no definitive settings from them. Hanz Lehner the agrees with this about timing. If you know how to measure the motor constants u may shoot a line to ZTW support as well. That way you'd be covered on both ends with both OEM's When you talk to ZTW ask the the PWM frequency at which the drive operates at. If you dont have one get the programmer for the seal. It looks like it has some bluetooth feature as well dont know if thats another way in.

Regards,
Hubert

[jingalls007]

Hi,
Jinalls007 , you are right the 370 BM is a 10 pole motor . It has also to note that the Teras has a better magnetsystem with flux sampling wedges in the rotor . Not all esc can handle this magnetsystem even well . I would better aske Plettenberg to advice a controler that fit to the motor . i have smaller motors with such magnetsystem that run with all esc but some fit better , running cooler because of better comutation.
To akse Plettenberg you have to hurry as the strat vacation from 6 of July till 20 of July.
So i had a short phone call with Uwe Plettenberg m we know us since we start modelbuilding , and he told me that the Teras is a Biest and the only controller he say worke well are the Jeti Spin 300 and the other is the Kontronik Water cool Kosmic 200 HVI . All other is a kill you compunents.

Happy Amps Christian

Pascal said that Kontronics, YGE and MGM would work with this motor.

I'm sure others work too. We'll see what happens, but hopefully the SEAL can handle it.

[jingalls007]

Nice!
If you try the seal dont run the motor without a load. Put a small plane prop or something on there first. They try the drive. Get from them what timing it likes to like to see. Heavy loads would usually like higher timing and the opposite is true for light loads, but youll start somewhere in the middle if you get no definitive settings from them. Hanz Lehner the agrees with this about timing. If you know how to measure the motor constants u may shoot a line to ZTW support as well. That way you'd be covered on both ends with both OEM's When you talk to ZTW ask the the PWM frequency at which the drive operates at.

Regards,
Hubert

I'll do it! Thanks dude!

[eXoNerated]

At the MGMers
The drive has all the hardware in place to be either style drive maybe someone should ask if they are willing to provide a BLDC fw. because you are not running a true sinus motor. Most of our machines are quasisinus but the FSCW winding is a trap winding so I do not consider them true sinus machine. Unfortunately It wasnt shared if the lehner has rhombic coils but it certainly isnt a FSCW motor and it states a nearly perfect sinus so its ideal for sinus drives like mgm, sls, ..... But again full sinus (drive and motor) setups wont generate the same amount of torque as a true BLDC motor and BLDC drive. On the top end where most speed boats run there is no significant gain in efficiency or power with a sinus drive. I do not know UWE but I really believe the design of the Tetras was after the 370 or Kima and the switch in pole counts were to deliver a perfect winding factor and easier commutation for various drives. Possibly they added the mass (made it larget than the 370) to get back the phenomenal torque character of the multipole machines that predated it.

Regards
Hubert,

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi ,
so we see how you play this. Before my answer, you didn't write which controller Plettenberg recommends that you supposedly asked there. After I wrote that the Plettenberg recomend the Spin 300, the Kontronik and the YGE . But not the exotic ones you listed. Why didn't you write that you asked Plettenberg? So I tell you why, because you want to show the great omniscient who knows his stuff, so I don't need to say anything about why I wrote that you can call or email the question. I then called myself because I know the company very well and received the answers that I wrote. What you are doing here is not very nice to say very cautiously.
@jingalls007 , okay then you will see how it will do. thanks for your kindness.


Happy Amps Christian