2s racing?

[Fluid]

A number of us have said for years that both organizations have far too many classes, yet somehow more classes get added. The right thing to do moving forward would be to make real reductions in the number of classes, this to boost entries and improve racing quality. Terry is right, both orgs lack focus with the result that we have “national champions” in classes with half a dozen boats entered! It would mean something to be a champion if each class had 15-20 entries. The quality of racing would also improve, and perhaps the number of heats per class too.

Everyone has suggestions, here are a few of mine.

Eliminate the following:
All N-1 and N-2 classes. The Limited classes fulfill the ‘low cost/low speed beginner’ requirement.
Crackerbox. No explanation required.
OPC T. Eliminate P or P Limited, but just one.
ECO. See Crackerbox above.
All Catamaran classes. Go back to just Offshore classes, this worked for decades. But allow optional oval course.
All T classes except 1/8 scale. Q will fill this use for 90%+ of T boaters.

To me the above changes make sense. Some of the classes eliminated are personal favorites of mine, and I am sure others will scream foul (or fowl). But I would ask them which is most important, the future of the hobby or their own pet classes.

The above are National classes, individual clubs can run whatever they want, including classes not in the current rule book (as in the HOTMBC example above). IMO less is more in the case of FE racing classes.


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[Peter A]

Lol. Our current NZ president has just pushed through and added N2, P, Q, S & T, mono, tunnel and hydro classes, that's 15 more! Mostly so that he personally can chase speed records and earn presidents cup points! It is madness as the same thing, we have too many classes anyway which are not being filled up and raced. The committee (president mostly) has also frigged with the records, and reversed changes made to gas classes in the last 5 years to try and minimise those, so more gas classes again too. As the former president I seem to be on the outs with him for challenging all this but...WTH. In all this no one asked me at all, and I am the one person who has pushed and run FE to try and prove it viable against the gassers which are generally all that is run. Not many nitros left these days either. All of this was 'to keep up with what happens overseas' and try to increase membership in an association that has dwindled to numbers of less than 60 members!

[Doug Smock]

The gas boys have less classes and much higher chances of making heats on a given Sunday.

Gas guys fill heats because there are many more of them, and they travel.

Nitro racers are second in numbers & FE racers are at the bottom of the pile despite our efforts.

The way I see it you can cut all the classes you want with a race flier. "Racers" are going to build what's racing. Getting rid of N for instance isn't going to put more P,Q,S, or T boats in the pond. N boats may not be oval racing everywhere but they do show up at oval and SAW record trials. Yes the guys would call a foul, you can count on it!

A "Nationals" can be fixed with a minimum boat count.

Bottom line I see membership as a bigger issue than the number of classes.

Just my .02 FWIW fellas with all due respect of course. I certainly don't have all the answers, and I imagine we'll never please everyone. I'm kind of at a crossroads myself.

D.

[T.S.Davis]

I swear I'm not stirring Howard. I want us to continue to grow.

NAMBA has 39 FE classes. Not that I care what NAMBA's up to these days but you see my point.

IMPBA doesn't have as many classes obviously. I'd like to see a form of P spec for IMPBA. Every venue runs it that I've been to in the past couple years. 6 races I would consider "major" events. All IMPBA. All ran a "Limited" type class. It should be in the book. However, the "too many classes" is a real thing. We're spreading our ranks too thin. Especially when there's N stock, N super stock, N open. Over 3 hull types. Ugh. Let something go fellas. Move on. A new guy does not need to be led down a path that doesn't have a heat to run in.

I'm not saying I'm right by I feel like we should have a similar class structure to the other fuels. Mono, hydro, sport, cats. I'm okay with S & T sticking around. It's that "shock and awe" factor. Rarely does a new guy start there. He's not likely to build a big T boat and then realize there's no place to race it. Also, the guys that DO like the big boats are super freaks. They're not skipping a populated class so they can run the big boats. They're running everything else too. Same thing with 1/8. Both organization have it. Neither needs it on the books based on turnout. Typically the class is populated with the same nuts with T boats that are also running 5 or 6 popular classes. So they aren't quite detracting from another class. These big boats are not sucking up newbies is what I'm saying.

Something somewhere has to give. That's why I was suggesting a small concession. Drop the tiny boats that are the most difficult to drive that very few are in to. Less than 1/2% of the actual racer population? Maybe. Probably less. We have to evolve.

[T.S.Davis]

Doug, a new guy goes to the website and looks at the rule book.

"Let's see, what can I race? hmmmmmm Stock motors?!?! I have a bushel basket of those! 2s! Got those too! I'm in! Gonna stomp a mud hole in some butts!"

Then he builds it and finds that the only thing he can do is travel to a time trial. So.......literally about 18 laps per year depending in the venue. Is he staying in the hobby? Not a chance.

FE guys don't travel. That's very true. Not in quantity. A few super freaks here and there. Raising my guilty super freak hand. Not sure why though.

That reminds me............got plans for a nice race in June.

[CraigP]

We don’t need more classes we need less. Terry stop stirring the pot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Terry is advocating less classes. APBA went thru the same stuff years ago, and still does. It’s an on going evolution. But for the life of me, I don’t get fuel and gas boats being more popular, other than they are very old classes. But I have expressed an opinion related to this the top of summer, and got reamed for it. I still believe the electric classes have less involvement because the current is too high. The only way to reduce current without sacrificing speed is to raise voltage. But there will need to be other restrictions to keep racers from using current AND voltage to go even faster and make them even more unreliable or expensive. I think this conversation relates to the topic, less classes that are carefully thought out. Tough problem! FE boats require more electrical knowledge, and that’s intimidating to many...

[Fluid]

I expected many would not like my suggestion. If the goal is to increase FE membership and additional classes would accomplish that, then I’m all for it.

One of the biggest blocks to FE growth is that the pool of potential new members is changing radically with the influx of millenials and their kids. They have different desires and expectations than “us” and most don’t want to build a boat, they just want to run one. The RTR manufacturers clearly realize this and now supply very good products for this new demographic. But neither organization addresses this change, preferring a head in the sand posture. They seem to want to complicate things using the old class template. It simply doesn’t work any more.

So perhaps a different but better solution to increase participation and hook new members would be to adopt RTR classes. Like the current Limited classes, designate a couple specific hulls to compete together. Box stock classes with few or no mods allowed. Maybe handout plastic props. Mono RTR, Cat RTR, Hydro RTR.

This makes it easier for more folks to enjoy the hobby and get into racing. Right now there are numerous informal boater groups just racing RTRs for fun. One group is just 20 minutes from my home, a bunch of airplane guys who wanted to try boats. AFAIK none of them have a NAMBA or IMPBA background, they did it on their own. In the past couple months they have assembled 6-8 racers and meet most weekends. They have a lot of fun. Maybe they have something to teach the rest of us.



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[CraigP]

Lol. Our current NZ president has just pushed through and added N2, P, Q, S & T, mono, tunnel and hydro classes, that's 15 more! Mostly so that he personally can chase speed records and earn presidents cup points! It is madness as the same thing, we have too many classes anyway which are not being filled up and raced. The committee (president mostly) has also frigged with the records, and reversed changes made to gas classes in the last 5 years to try and minimise those, so more gas classes again too. As the former president I seem to be on the outs with him for challenging all this but...WTH. In all this no one asked me at all, and I am the one person who has pushed and run FE to try and prove it viable against the gassers which are generally all that is run. Not many nitros left these days either. All of this was 'to keep up with what happens overseas' and try to increase membership in an association that has dwindled to numbers of less than 60 members!

There’s politics even in turtle racing! Man, that just kills an organization... Ask the Unlimited guys...

[CraigP]

Jay raises many good points... As much as I hate to admit it, I have found that the young crowd is NOT interested in construction and fabrication. It is a changing world! I wouldn’t even have a boat if RTR was the only choice. But I’m old... BTW, did Jay move from Texas? Just noticed AZ on his bio...

[Doug Smock]

N Stock and Super Stock are "record only" classes, that was on purpose. They evolved in 09 when lithium came in and L, N-1, O-1, and O-2 records where archived. Why? Because the guys that were running those classes for records were kicked to the curb. Foul!!

Speaking of same as other fuels. TLSG 54 and Nitro Twin, have their own class. Yet you can run twins in Q,S, and T. P in NAMBA too I think. They shouldn't be allowed to run with singles as written IMO. Tried to fix it from a records standpoint, oh well, another time.

I'm personally sick to death of the all the noise associated with P Limited. If we can land on something that doesn't require a rule change every year or ever I might be able to agree to that. Not that it matters, I'm one voice. For records? Not interested!! Perhaps N could be made a "records only" class to make room for P Limited if it flys.

.02 FWIW

D.

[Doug Smock]

Good stuff Jay!

Terry, you are wrong about the new guy!!! A lot of guys don't look at the rulebook at all. Or the Roostertail for that matter where the organization cleverly conceals what's going on.

[T.S.Davis]

If we can land on something that doesn't require a rule change every year or ever I might be able to agree to that.

Already wrote it. Along with 8 others. At least one is going to the back burner. Might just take it off the stove. Not necessary the more I think about it. Just need the signatures.

"Spec" is the most popular power set I've seen since I owned boats.

Twins in IMPBA is weirder than NAMBA I think. NAMBA has a max Mah that the two motors must share. So 6k per motor for large boat. Although nobody ever checks it. In IMPBA it literally allows twice the power. Carry as much gas as you want. Single source or not (which is stupid BTW). Your watts out can be double that of a single. If a 1527/1y is the go to 6s motor. Throw two in. Winner winner chicken dinner. Assuming it can finish. Going straight it can. Ovals? Doubt it. Sickest Q twin I've seen turns like an arrow shot from a compound bow.

Jay, we did that with the RTR's. Didn't stick. Guys got bored. They only work if the club has no other racing history or experience. If you have guys that will race anything that floats it doesn't hold up. New guys it could I think.

I'm all over the place now but screw it....it's my thread. There really needs to be an easier route to allowing a potential new guy to try racing. IMPBA has an allowance to let a guy drive a boat but not race. The temp membership is only available to someone who is already a member of another organization. So if you have experience elsewhere you can race with us. Otherwise go away. There's a gap there that needs a bridge. Don't have the answer to that riddle myself.

[T.S.Davis]

Or the Roostertail for that matter where the organization cleverly conceals what's going on.

Bahaha Why do I have a feeling you're quoting something I typed before?

[rol243]

I would like to see a 2s class if people want it do it.

[lambo]

New guy here.
I wanted to build a 1/10 hydro. Checked with the club and they don’t run scale 1/10 or 1/8.

Then after extensive research I decided that I could get a cat and run offshore p-limited. I’m looking at a 29” MM2 or a 34” cheetah (which is allegedly 1/4” too long.)

My point here is that it is incredibly confusing with a high barrier to entry.

On the other hand my rc car track runs four classes of 1/10 2wd buggy
*13.5t beginner
*13.5t (probably one of the the hardest class)
*17.5t
*Mod

So I can go buy xyz car and the appropriate motor and start racing

So you have the noob that shows up with his Traxxas or miss geico or whatever and finds out that he can’t race anything

I applaud any efforts to improve the experience.