Naviga allow energy limiters

[NativePaul]

The Naviga M section world championships are on at the moment and unfortunately I am not there, but I just heard that the meeting was tonight, and they voted 11-5 to allow electronic energy limiters as an alternative to the battery weight rule.

This pleases me no end as if we don't use all the power in the battery we are giving away a lot of power to those that do, and if we do we are wrecking the cells very quickly. The top battery's capacity goes up often too, so even if we don't flatten them and wreck them, we need new batteries yearly or get another disadvantage.

With the limiters we will be able to use any weight cells so buy any 6000mAh or so pack but only be able to use the set energy limit (still yet to be decided) so will have plenty left at the end of the race and get good longevity from the cells, giving us the most level playing field we have ever seen, and after an initial investment, the cheapest racing we have ever seen as we wont need specialised lightweight lowC cells or highC, any cells will give exactly the same power.

[StevenBryant]

Good idea and I hope it works out for you guys, unfortunately it's too late for my club as we have no FE left just lots of petrol and nitro boats now..


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[CraigP]

Paul, this has been the big reason I don't race... There needs to be an energy cap, or it's just a battle of who has the deepest pockets. I feel with the increase use of data logging, that a max watt limit should be used, where data logs are submitted for tech review. Give each class a maximum average wattage. An example would be P-Class Hydro get an average of 2800 running watts, with peak watts not to exceed 4500. The software still has to develop and to make it manageable, should be done via wifi. As it is, it's just an expensive electrical part carnage going on. It's no wonder many are turning to gas and nitro, where the reliability is much better. I say "Stop the Carnage"! Or let's have a "Be Kind to Your LiPo Pack Week"!

[Jesse J]

Very cool! What are the present day options for these energy limiters?
I'd like to see how it works and possibly get a class going here.

[Doug Smock]

Paul, this has been the big reason I don't race... There needs to be an energy cap, or it's just a battle of who has the deepest pockets.

This just doesn't hold water Craig. Lots of things come into play other than the cubic $$$ a guy puts into a model.

[Doby]

This just doesn't hold water Craig. Lots of things come into play other than the cubic $$$ a guy puts into a model.

Finally he says something intelligent.

[longballlumber]

Finally he says something intelligent.

Says the guy who only keyboard races these days....

[NativePaul]

3 people/companies started of developing limiters at about the same time, I think one fizzled out. 2 of them released prototypes for testing at about the same time, 1 of which I believe was holding off for the vote to go into production, and MLM took the gamble and the MLM ELim is in production already. I know little about the other one bar the prototypes were the same price and the testers were happy with them, the guy behind MLM races with me regularly so I am biased towards his product as long as they work just as well, which all indications say they do.

China race to Naviga rules, so I imagine there will be a cheaper Chinese energy limiter available at some point, although as neither existing limiter are to be made in China, hopefully they will design their own and not just steal the design.

Craig, I think you should get yourself out to a few races, it is WAY more fun than running alone, and while I think limiting energy in some form is the best way to get parity whilst still rewarding better builders, tuners and drivers, I think that you may be surprised how well the length limits used in the US work with current hull designs at keeping power systems reasonable.

[Doug Smock]

It will be interesting to see how this works out Paul.

[CraigP]

Says the guy who only keyboard races these days....

Guys, I didn't say it was the determining factor of who wins. It's not fair to assume I did say that. Obviously driving skills is #1. Then there's Boat prep. I would think that goes without saying, but I guess it does need to be said. Long, pretty cheap shot there.. Your obviously a jolly fellow! My point is that expenses are a consideration and a source of discouragement when things have to be replaced because they blow up. I've been talking to some folks who are getting back into gas or nitro because of ESC and battery expenses. It just cracks me up how little you guys listen to others, other than fellow racers. I should have been more clear, but holy smokes, you guys are brutal and really come off like pompous a--es sometimes! I guess it's just that age old country club attitude, you're in or you're not... I choose not.

[CraigP]

3 people/companies started of developing limiters at about the same time, I think one fizzled out. 2 of them released prototypes for testing at about the same time, 1 of which I believe was holding off for the vote to go into production, and MLM took the gamble and the MLM ELim is in production already. I know little about the other one bar the prototypes were the same price and the testers were happy with them, the guy behind MLM races with me regularly so I am biased towards his product as long as they work just as well, which all indications say they do.

China race to Naviga rules, so I imagine there will be a cheaper Chinese energy limiter available at some point, although as neither existing limiter are to be made in China, hopefully they will design their own and not just steal the design.

Craig, I think you should get yourself out to a few races, it is WAY more fun than running alone, and while I think limiting energy in some form is the best way to get parity whilst still rewarding better builders, tuners and drivers, I think that you may be surprised how well the length limits used in the US work with current hull designs at keeping power systems reasonable.

Paul, I appreciate that. I do plan on seeing some racing in Oscar's club in Dallas. But we all have our own reasons for being in rc boats. I don't race, but I am doing something. I use the boats as reasearch and development systems to analyze the deterioration effects on LiPo batteries, which I plan on using in some projects I'm engaged in at work. So when I'm tooling around the boat out there, my mind is not thinking about getting ahead of the boat in front of me, but getting ahead of competition in my work arena. It's all just an electrical analysis to me. I guess to some that makes me something less than others, but I'm happy doing my analysis. This is no joke, these projects are worth millions of dollars. My company pays for my boat with the exception of damage caused by racing events. So I'm not all fired up to go bugger up my R&D boat. It think it's best for me to quit posting on threads originated by racers. You guys seem to like your familiar pasture and don't appear to be good or open to new thoughts. I'll just stick with the sport boaters. They're a happier lot anyway!

[Doug Smock]

Guys, I didn't say it was the determining factor of who wins. It's not fair to assume I did say that. Obviously driving skills is #1. Then there's Boat prep. I would think that goes without saying, but I guess it does need to be said. Long, pretty cheap shot there.. Your obviously a jolly fellow! My point is that expenses are a consideration and a source of discouragement when things have to be replaced because they blow up. I've been talking to some folks who are getting back into gas or nitro because of ESC and battery expenses. It just cracks me up how little you guys listen to others, other than fellow racers. I should have been more clear, but holy smokes, you guys are brutal and really come off like pompous a--es sometimes! I guess it's just that age old country club attitude, you're in or you're not... I choose not.

Craig, take a breath man. Mike's (longballlumber) reply was to John, (Doby) he quoted him in his post. SMH
And FWIW, you would be hard pressed to find a "happier lot" of guys than those involved in TOY BOAT racing.

Sorry we derailed your thread a bit Paul. Say the word and I'll drag a broom through here.

[jevmax]

Hilarious!

[CraigP]

Not so sure about that... Point is, regardless of reported news, the economy probably is not going to change much for the average Joe. So pennies are going to be tight. Power restrictions are a way to keep most people below the hazard line, then it will be ALL about driving skill and boat knowledge.

I get intel from many sources, to help collaborate my reasearch hypothesis. This is across many forums... there are many converting to gas and nitro. Not a severe problem, they are still racing. But there's a group getting out because they just don't like fuel boats. Through both groups, they say equipment failure and product obsolescence is driving their decisions. The batteries are changing, we now have HV LiPo, 4.35 and soon to be mainstream, 4.4v batteries. So you either repurchase one of the most expensive aspects or get left in the dust, I mean wakes... power limiting removes ALL of that! It should be wattage limits, then it doesn't matter what batteries you have. If it's AH limits, then the newer batteries can probably burst accelerate better.

It's a ways off... data loggers are becoming common place, but soon wifi data logging will be the norm. With that, info can automatically be down loaded to a race sanction computer for quick analysis. Heck, you'd know if your DQ'd probably before you get your boat out of the water.

I have watched a sport I cared for deeply, Unlimited boat racing, literally fall apart because sanctioning bodies did not listen to race site committees and sponsors. Keep on top of it guys, it can be lost easier than you think... that's all I'm saying, thanks for reading...

[Fluid]

Hilarious!

Guess I'm missing some fun by having an active ignore list.

On second thought, no, I'm not.



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