DF Vortex 34 Hydro Build

[CraigP]

Here's a short clip of my DF Vortex 34 running last weekend. I lowered the strut after this clip and adjusted the turn fin. It ran much more settled than this clip. But it's looking pretty good here. It has a small motor in it now, until I get comfortable driving it. The motor is a Leopard 4074 1050kv running 8s with a SW 150a Pro+ ESC. It has a Prather S220 prop on it in this clip. It's now running a M545. GPS logged this run at 52mph, probably on the straights. I'm bogging the near corner badly, but it feels tight coming at me.

https://youtu.be/_lUkHAYp-aI

[properchopper]

Craig,

Looking good Appears that the sponson mods were worth the effort. Now the next step is to put some more power to it ; The 4082 - size Leo [or the TP Power 4060] will give more top end and test the handling in what likely will be the high 50 mph's or (propped up) the 60 mph's. For reference ('tho not apples to apples) my P-Cat Cheetah (running extra loose) with the TP Power 4060 {2040KV/4S2P} routinely/comfortably spins a 450/3 and has (for 2-lap time trials) a 452/2.

Here's a completely embarrasing initial run with a 450/3 prior to adding an air dam and lowering the strut (the tail fins are to aid lateral stability at speeds over 200mph ). Attempts at full throttle were simultaneously accompanied by a nice lakeside lunch while awaiting the boat's re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cdexf5jz3whttps://

Subsequently added air dam, lowered strut, added ballast in LF sponson tip, chickened out & throttled back to approx 1/3 throttle . Boat ran much smoother but the slower test speed really didn't indicate what would happen when spooled up but water & wind wasn't in my favor + after race guys wanted to pack up & close lake: [ speed clocked with calendar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKEH2yqruDA

Now that the racing season is basically over at Legg (and the warm weather weed problem is starting to clear up ) I'll spend some more time mostly prop testing. I over-motored this build to see what the TP Power 4070 2200 KV 100mm can motor was capable of. It can likely power my Ford Explorer

[CraigP]

Thanks Tony, it's been a lot of work but really a lot of fun to drive! The boat shows no signs of getting "Flippy". No hooking characteristics either. As you mentioned, it time to put the proper power to it. I have a 4082 1250kv to start turning larger props. The little motor is getting about maxed out with a M545. I have a M645 to try on it when I do the motor swap. The big delay is and has been, my inability to drive the boat! Before, at 50mph, the boat was always ahead of my concentration. I'm just getting into the 60's and have to learn that level. It takes a lot of thought, I really respect the talent of the good race drivers, it's not a trivial skill!

The next step is to try a 4s setup, to see about a P Sport setup. I have some batteries to make a 4s2p, 10,000mah battery pack, it just fits. I'm getting another pack that's 4s2p, 8,000mah, a bit lighter. I have a TP 4050 2310kv motor to couple to the 4s pack. I'm currently running a SW 150A Pro+ ESC on the 8s pack, highest current has been about 90A. That's a real sweet combination! The little motor only runs about 70A, the larger 4082 ran the higher current. I have a SW 220A Pro ESC to run the 4s pack.

I ran on Tuesday and found the steering too sensitive, so I cut down the rudder some. It's a dual water port, 1/8 scale rudder (Speedmaster) and have been slowly widdling it down to proper size. It got sensitive when the speed picked up with the M545... You know, working the setup out is the real kick for me!

The sponsons are pretty radical, most wouldn't think the numbers would work, but they do! The left sponson is 1/8" lower than the right. The angle on the right is 2.5 degrees and it's 1.3 degrees on the left. This forms a solid outside runner, allows the right sponson to run with less drag. The right sponson is 0.20" deeper than stock. This opens the air trap up behind the sponsons, spilling the air this hull likes to accumulate stock.

There is also a very aerodynamic wing, or canard, on the front. It is set to divert some air from the bottom, to up over the top. But the real cool stuff is the reverse wing design used on it. When the nose comes up from wind or waves, the reverse wing gets more laminar air flow over it, causing the negative lift to grow and put the boat back on the water. You can actually see it working! So, no air dams or strakes are used.

I'll get a better video hopefully soon. My wife, as great a love she is, has no videographer talents! Her videos can give you motion sickness, LOL!

[CraigP]

The video is great of your boat! It's getting at it. No porpoising, but some sponson dancing. Got a 4060 in there, eh? Do you think I'm on track with a 4050? I would rather spin the prop slower and use a bigger prop, the boat seems to like that better than high rpm.

[properchopper]

The video is great of your boat! It's getting at it. No porpoising, but some sponson dancing. Got a 4060 in there, eh? Do you think I'm on track with a 4050? I would rather spin the prop slower and use a bigger prop, the boat seems to like that better than high rpm.

Given that my specific frame of reference in Sport Hydros are those in P Class [4s 10Kmah 34" length limit] my experience has evidenced that the popular three P-Sport Hydros { PT Stealth, Whiplash, FE 30 + some ML's I'm not too familiar with) all are around 30" and mostly run what started as Neu 2200KV 1Y's which have evolved into Castle/Neu's, Leo 4074's and TP 4060's. Easy 60+mph rigs ( My Neu 2200 1Y FE30 maidened at 68.xx mph with a M445). I'd consider the TP Power 4060 as a good choice for the DF34 - It'll get high 50's / likely more. Probably stay out of the danger handling zone. The 4070 in mine is overkill.

[rol243]

one of the quickest sport hydros i have seem running was a Whiplash- fe powered by a 1512 - 2650 kv on 4 s. he did try a 1515-2200kv but speed was not there.

[CraigP]

All those hulls are wicked fast... I built the DF because I wanted a tribute boat to my brother's GP55. Those fast racing hulls have exaggerated sponson widths in ratio to the stern. They are also long waisted, so they don't look like full sized boats. I think the DF is too long and heavy to win... But still, I'm getting the itch to race. I might build one of those hulls just to race it, and leave the Littl' GP55 looking good! You guys gave me some great intel, thanks!

[R2315]

It's looking awesome Craig! and very nice work on the sponsons, mean looking indeed!

[properchopper]

All those hulls are wicked fast... I built the DF because I wanted a tribute boat to my brother's GP55. Those fast racing hulls have exaggerated sponson widths in ratio to the stern. They are also long waisted, so they don't look like full sized boats. I think the DF is too long and heavy to win... But still, I'm getting the itch to race. I might build one of those hulls just to race it, and leave the Littl' GP55 looking good! You guys gave me some great intel, thanks!

Craig,

In NAMBA the P-Sport Hydro class rules don't specify that the boats must resemble real Hydros, only that they conform to certain dimensional/proportional considerations.

Here's some NAMBA P-Sport Hydros [FE30, Whiplash, PT Stealth& a Randy Naylor design] slugging it out in Az.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giN0xQeA8RE

The 1/10 Scale Vintage, 1/10 Scale Modern and 1/8 scale class have to look like an existing full size / actually raced boat including engines and drivers..

[rol243]

Scale Class . those sport hydros were going along very nice.

[CraigP]

You guys mis read what I meant... I don't want to race Scale, just build a boat that I could make look like my brother's boat. I built the boat to do R&D on LiPo batteries and their possible commercial use in industrial designs. But I might be getting the racing itch! I was watching some FE30 boats on Utube, Tony, I think one of the video's was yours. They do have sponson walk and porpoising in the turns. My DF doesn't do that, but I currently lose more speed in the turns. But if it's a rough and windy day, I'm thinking I might hold my own! My modified DF will run some ugly water well...

[rol243]

not that i have these hulls but what i have seen in fe-30 size sport hydros , the quickest and best handling hulls have been either the ML Boatworks or the Whiplash. if you can buy or build one of these hulls i am sure you will be very impressed in what they do.

[properchopper]

You guys mis read what I meant... I don't want to race Scale, just build a boat that I could make look like my brother's boat. I built the boat to do R&D on LiPo batteries and their possible commercial use in industrial designs. But I might be getting the racing itch! I was watching some FE30 boats on Utube, Tony, I think one of the video's was yours. They do have sponson walk and porpoising in the turns. My DF doesn't do that, but I currently lose more speed in the turns. But if it's a rough and windy day, I'm thinking I might hold my own! My modified DF will run some ugly water well...

Since you've concluded and posted that FE30's "have sponson walk and porposing in the turns" I'd like some equal air time. To begin with, I participated in the design of the FE30, tested prototypes until final design approval, singlehanderdly rolled them out to market, race-rigged more of them than anyone on Earth, and have raced both of mine from the very start (and my P-Ltd Sport, the very first production example is still racing and winning)with much success, + watched as many FE30's won countless races and Nationals. SO:

They DO NOT have any inherent design characteristic that causes sponson dance in the turns. NONE. In a turn the outside sponson lifts from prop torque while the inside turn fin acts to to pull the inside sponson up / the outside sponson downand a tug of war is initiated as the sponson rear tips tap-dance over the racewater. If you're properly flying the hull this is what happens. Check out 36+ seconds in this vid &
you might want to plug your ears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC6I_ad8Isw

(No park Rangers were injured during the making of this video)

Not sure what you mean by porposing, but if prop lift, strut depth and angle, and fore-aft CG aren't adjusted to keep the a** from hopping, once maximum lift angle is achieved, gravity and the slowing from the front sponson area being wetted and slowing the boat down, the a** will hop. This can be tuned out but in typical racewater it's not a huge issue.

The real test for your DF34 is to see what happens once sped up to P-Sport levels (60 to 70 mph). At 1/2 throttle my un-sponson modded DF34 doesn't exhibit any real problems either. Unleashed is a different story. Either way a DF34 rigged for P-Sport Hydro would be liked racing a Cadillac Escalade against a Formula 1 racecar given the competition from the current class winners.

[CraigP]

Points well taken... No racing for the Littl' GP55! Didn't mean to get you riled up.. I think I said those are mean boats. You gotta race on the edge, to win..

[Beaux]

Did you reinforce the hull anywhere? Those sponsons are killer love the metal work.