lets talk about fiberglass or abs and why?

[boatsrnew2me]

so i keep hearing how f/g is superior to abs so lets discuss that and try to convince me .

i been doing alot of research about my next boat choice and i am about to put money down on another proboat model ,a impulse .its f/g .
during my research i have read about cracked hulls, broken transom's,split seams , gel coat cracks ,breaks where canopies pins secure the cover .

that said convince me why f/g is better ?
watch this video .watch around the 2:22 mark . watch this plastic spartan do a flip over ,slap its nose against the water ,bounce back over and recover and not break a darn thing . nor lose the cover ,and no tape . sure he could have got lucky ,but would a f/g hull fare as well?

i do not think a f/g boat would have survived this based on what i have read and seen .

convince me otherwise .

disclaimer: i could be wrong

[dethow]

Carbon fiber is superior to fiberglass and fiberglass is superior to abs.
No need to convince you... But I will tell you that a f/g boat would survive that with no issue.

[boatsrnew2me]

Carbon fiber is superior to fiberglass and fiberglass is superior to abs.
No need to convince you... But I will tell you that a f/g boat would survive that with no issue.

thats not what i have been reading .
cracked gel coat ,split seams,broken transoms ,broken hinge pin areas .

read a thread where a guy submarined his f/g boat . when he came up the pins on the cover sheared the f/g where the pins secure the cover . it wasnt taped .its late i am off to bed .this should be a good debate .

[NativePaul]

They both have their advantages. ABS is incredibly quick and clean to mould compared to glass which gives much cheaper production costs. Glass is stronger and stiffer for a given weight, and sharp edges are possible with glass.

ABS is available in many different thickness, and with glass you can have in any thickness, and use E glass or S glass, and polyester, vinylester, or epoxy resin. You can't say one is stronger or weaker than the other as 1 may have more material in it than the other.

I've seen ripped, cracked and holed hulls, broken transom's, split seams and breaks where canopies pins secure covers, in ABS, styrene, glass, wood, carbon, kevlar, carbon/kevlar and Dyneema. There is no material you can make a boat out of that can't be wrecked in a bad enough crash without adding enough material to severely stint its performance with weight that is unnecessary the vast majority of the time.

I have never used gelcoat myself as it is purely cosmetic and I am a racer so I don't want unnecessary weight. Epoxying the mould, laying a sheet of 25gsm cloth and letting it gel before continuing with the lay up reduces pinholes and print through sufficiently for me. Most of the hulls I have bought that had gelcoat only had a thin layer to stop pinholes, a couple have had thick layers and while it is pretty with a even opaque coat, it is less flexible than the glass under it so can crack. As gelcoat isn't structural any cracks in it aren't either, but spidercracks aren't pretty.

The blowover at 2:22 was not a big hit, when they hit sideways and almost instantly come to a dead stop it puts much more load on things. I see several worse at every race without damage, it is usually hitting hard things like boats, banks and buoys that damages boats at that speed, although boats can easily get wrecked from blowovers at higher speeds.

He didn't lose the cover, but it may well have lost its seal, as after the run at 3:25 and again at 5:17 you see him pouring lots of water out, so his electrics are living on borrowed time. I would tape it if I were him.

I feel obliged to say that operating a FE boat when someone is in the water is idiotic.

[boredom.is.me]

To expand on what was said above, it's not a situation of whether this material is better than the other. It's about how the particular material was used in the construction of the hull. A quality fiberglass hull will always be better than a cheap carbon fiber hull. It's about who is building it. The main advantage of abs is production. Also abs is just a rubberized version of styrene. Each abs producer has a different mix, so that's another factor.

Take a look at the Vac-U-Pickle. It is a double hull design like most vacuum formed hulls. What sets it apart is strategically placed channels built into the inner hull. My pickle is way more solid than many other plastic and fiberglass hulls.

On the opposite spectrum, my HPR is made from a mix of fine fiberglass with heavier layers of carbon kevlar. Let me tell you, that thing is on a completely different level. The down side is that it wasn't cheap. The reason for mixing the materials is simple. Again, each one has its strengths and weaknesses. You play to each strength which negates the weaknesses. Carbon is super stiff. If it takes too hard of a hit, it will shatter. Kevlar will flex. Blending the two allows for a stiff hull that can take a hit. Fiberglass can conform to molds really well making it an ideal product for the outer layer(s). None of this matters if the bonding agent is worthless though. Epoxy > polyester and vinyl ester.

I know I strayed from your question, but my intention was to simply show that the process has a greater impact than the product itself.

If anything in there is off, please correct me, but I'm 99.999% sure I got that.

[boatsrnew2me]

maybe i should state that i am comparing mass produced boats ,nothing user made as a user who can build could build their f/g boat to any strength they want .

[boatsrnew2me]

He didn't lose the cover, but it may well have lost its seal, as after the run at 3:25 and again at 5:17 you see him pouring lots of water out, so his electrics are living on borrowed time. I would tape it if I were him.

I feel obliged to say that operating a FE boat when someone is in the water is idiotic.

that boat does have a seal persay .they call it a drip rail .no sealing material at all .traxxas claims everything inside is waterproof and it has a sealed rx box .

[dethow]

this should be a good debate .

Not really much of a debate here, other than you telling guys that have been doing this for years that what they are saying is different than what you see in a video or have read. Yes, all boats have a breaking point... so all boats will break.

It can be left at this... 99% of the experienced boaters on this forum would not own an abs hull for serious boating.
For funning around (sport) boating... maybe. I have two Recoil 26s... for playing around in Lake Michigan.

And don't compare what a Spartan did at 45mph verses what a serious c/f or f/g boat did at 80mph. Not apples to apples. Get that Spartan to 80mph and watch what happens. Lol... it won't be pretty.

If you want to sport around and have fun on the river, go buy an abs boat if that's what you like.

[pistol18]

I agree with dethow and like your other thread, I appreciate you are doing your research(I do the same).
Like said before though, some of the posts you are reading are people who are pushing boats beyond what they were designed for. Again, when you crash a rtr boat at speeds 1.5-2x the speed they were designed for things will break.

I've never owned a spartan but there are plenty who have them and love them and others who don't.
Good luck with your decision and enjoy the hobby!!

[Doby]

that boat does have a seal persay .they call it a drip rail .no sealing material at all .traxxas claims everything inside is waterproof and it has a sealed rx box .

Traxxas is the master at marketing....I'd love to know how they waterproof the motor.

[boatsrnew2me]

Traxxas is the master at marketing....I'd love to know how they waterproof the motor.

good point .
i am not looking to race a boat ,more a run around the river and when i cant run there then run around the big lake . the big lake will have boat traffic but probably not anywhere near where i would be .many coves i could run in .

so i am torn between the spartan and the impulse v3. i know everyone will say get the impulse . i still may .still on the fence .out the box on 6s the spartan looks to be a faster runner then the impulse . i been researching for days .my brain hurts...lol.

i would have bought the voracity had i not read people complaining about split seams,broken area top of transom ,weak hull area . i dont want to buy a rtr and have to do work to it to make it rtr .i do like the look of it though .

what you say voracity owners?

[martin]

ABS is good to a point, but when it does fail its normally not repairable & requires a new hull or hatch. Where as a glassfibre hull can easily be repaired, glassfibre hulls can also be strengthened with over lays. You cant really put an over lay in an ABS hull as the resin dosnt stick very well to ABS.

[properchopper]

I agree with dethow and like your other thread, I appreciate you are doing your research(I do the same).
Like said before though, some of the posts you are reading are people who are pushing boats beyond what they were designed for. Again, when you crash a rtr boat at speeds 1.5-2x the speed they were designed for things will break.

I've never owned a spartan but there are plenty who have them and love them and others who don't.
Good luck with your decision and enjoy the hobby!!

If there ever was a perfect subtitle for all the stuff going on here, this encapsulates it perfectly.

Most RtR's were designed to be marketed to the "middle" hobbyist, the Father and Son Sunday at the park demographic. That's what pays the bills. On our forum the general mood of the newer boater is "gotta go faster" and regardless of logical considerations, more KV, Volts, Pitch gets bolted on until the inevitable - charter membership in the ZSP/WTS Club (Zoom/Splash/Plop-What's That Smell?). Although the current crop of RtR's are light years ahead of what they were ten years ago, realize that they need to have the least expensive construction possible to meet the target market price point and budget labor means the 9 year old on the cukoo clock assembly line gets pulled of and applies her expertice assembling RtR boats.

The good news is that some forward thinking is happening (in spite of futile attempts by some FE veterans brought in as consultants only to see their input overlooked or such).

Lately, having spent time with Proboat's Raphael and experienced the Zelos & Voracity models I'm majorly impressed with absolutely outstanding out of the box performance PLUS the designs leave room for reasonable upgrades .

ABS or Fiberglass or FG/Kevlar or compressed/laminated chicken feathers, there's a basic built-in limit to how much you can "push" internal or external workings. Price-attractive RtR's will reach that limit rather quickly. Bulletproof builds are costly but depending on how cruel you are to your stuff on the lake they can save money in the long run.

[fweasel]

That's it. This winter's build is starting with "compressed/laminated chicken feathers". I hope paint sticks to it.

[properchopper]

so i keep hearing how f/g is superior to abs so lets discuss that and try to convince me .

i been doing alot of research about my next boat choice and i am about to put money down on another proboat model ,a impulse .its f/g .
during my research i have read about cracked hulls, broken transom's,split seams , gel coat cracks ,breaks where canopies pins secure the cover .

that said convince me why f/g is better ?
watch this video .watch around the 2:22 mark . watch this plastic spartan do a flip over ,slap its nose against the water ,bounce back over and recover and not break a darn thing . nor lose the cover ,and no tape . sure he could have got lucky ,but would a f/g hull fare as well?

i do not think a f/g boat would have survived this based on what i have read and seen .

convince me otherwise .

disclaimer: i could be wrong

One bent rudder is all I remember. Some even drove away. Even if the Spartan could go as fast as these then crashed, there would simply be a debris field and not much more. ('Tho in all fairness, real SAW boats are in a different league entirely)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wQrlZjnd6U

Last month Brian N. performed these all day and drove out of it when there was upright landings :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB_h3HElczA