Am I missing something?!!!

[Tango Whiskey]

Greetings! New member here, and I come in peace!

I've played around with RC models off and on for more than 30 years now. Most of my models have been powered by nitro engines. I first got into nitro cars. They were a constant maintenance and repair nightmare. I could barely get a solid run without having to fix or replace broken parts afterwards. I dabbled a little into electric cars, powered by NiCad batts, but I never caught the bug, missing the sound and smell of a nitro burner. Then I got into nitro airplanes. After lots of painstaking work and pride in my new bird, it never failed that it would always end up being pile-drived into the ground somehow. This led me to RC boats. I figured that since they have fewer moving parts, they theoretically should be easier to keep together in one piece, and if the engine dies or something fails... well, it floats, so I can just wade out and retrieve it. I figured there would be less chance of my expensive toy getting destroyed with boats. So naturally, I gravitate toward what I know and go the nitro route. Although my thoughts of increased reliability hasn't quite panned out, at least I haven't destroyed my boats yet.

I've been seduced into giving FE a try. Although I love miniature engines, I figured the simplicity of merely charging batteries, not having to buy fuel, and not having to clean up oily residue would be a welcome change. Just buy some batteries and a battery charger, bring along some spare batteries, and have a day of good clean, hassle-free fun. Right? I could see the allure of FE, and with this newfangled Lipo battery technology, I could even meet and surpass nitro speed! Win-win, right? Can I get an "amen?"

Then, I do some reading on FE boating and Lipo batteries...
HOLY CHRISTMAS!!!
So, let me see if I'm understanding this commitment correctly...
First, unless I buy an RTR, it appears I need an electrical engineering degree to select the power components, wire it up correctly, and tweak it to run to its potential. Not insurmountable; I'm a reasonably smart guy. Just gotta learn some new stuff.
Ok...then, I check out the Lipo packs I'll need. I study up on what the 47 different alphanumeric specs mean on the batts, motors and chargers and feel like I'm starting to understand. I study up on continuous vs. peak amp draw, C ratings, motor "timing" programming ESCs, delta vs. wye motor wiring... now I need a stiff drink...

Then...SONOFA.....!!!! It appears I'll need to invest $500 in batteries and another $150 - $200 in a "proper" battery charger...to get a whopping 5 min of run time per fresh set of batteries!

Ok, it's the price I have to pay to play; I'll just bring along a nitro boat to play with when my FE boat runs out of juice. But, man oh man, I sure better select my electronics carefully or a lot of money will literally go up in smoke!

So then I read up on Lipo batteries in general. Unless the warnings are highly exaggerated, it appears the hobby is REALLY in desperate need of finding a better energy source!!! This stuff might as well be plutonium, in the name of all that's good and holy!!!

What I learn:
- I must charge the Lipos in a special bag, to mitigate property damage in the event they freakin' burst into flames or explode!!! But, the power leads on the batteries are only 3" long, so I can barely fit them in the bag when charging.
- I can't simply plug them into the charger and turn it on. A "proper" charger has more menus and options to select than my audio-video entertainment system!
- If I charge them, I must use them within a day or 2 or battery life is greatly reduced.
- I must never leave them unsupervised while charging. So, in essence, if I have a set of 4 packs charging at 1C or so, I can't leave sight of them for the two hours it takes to charge them up?!!!
- I must discharge them to 3.85 volts/cell before storing them long-term or life will either be greatly diminished or they become chemically unstable and freakin' burst into flames?!!! Since I assume they gradually lose charge over time even when dormant, does this mean I will need to periodically take them out of their protective hazmat-approved storage container and charge them back up to their "storage" charge or risk upsetting the electron gods?
- I must store them inside their special bag stuffed into a metal container, inside a fireproof safe, stored in a bombproof enclosure or risk them suddenly become chemically unstable without warning and burn my house down?!!!
- It's advisable to store them in a cool place. One site said 35-40 deg is ideal for storage. Do I keep them in my refrigerator? Another site suggested keeping them in an outside storage building for safety, but in the same article, it said never to store them in the heat. I live in Texas. There goes the outside storage building option, which means I must store these volatile &$#%!ers in my house!!!!
- I'm advised to get a charger with a "balancing plug" connection, so it charges the packs so that all cells have the same voltage. I take a look at the balancing plugs on Lipo packs and chargers and they appear to be flimsy to me, yet the connection is pretty tight. So, I must connect and disconnect this flimsy couplings each time I charge and discharge...hundreds, maybe thousands of times during the life of the battery...and somehow not rip these flimsy connectors off the wiring when repeatedly disconnecting them from the tight connection?
- There's no guarantee the Lipo packs won't burst into flames at random for no reason at all, even if I properly discharge to 3.85 volts/cell before storage... What the...?!!!

I watch horrifying YouTube videos of Lipos bursting into flames and creating a violent fire. I read and see photos of RC workshops burned up due to Lipo fires. If I didn't know better, these Lipos might as well be radioactive!!! I'm afraid to have them in my house and leave to go on vacation, or even to work!


All this for 5 min of fun per charge? After lightening your wallet to the tune of $100 per pack? Seriously?

Please tell me I'm missing something here, boys. Joining the Lipo FE club can't possibly be THIS much of a PITA...

...can it?

HAHA!


Ted

[Fluid]

I can't reply to all you contents, but I have been running FE boats for over 30 years, using LiPo packs for about ten years. I have never had a pack explode into flames and burn down my house. Most of the videos you see are of old tech LiPos...but you can blow up a pack if you try hard enough. I have seen club members burn up packs, but they were using cheap packs in bad setups.

You can run FE boats in complete safety if you follow a few rules. A Google search of helicopter or EDF airplane sites for LiPo care will help to clue you in. It really isn't that complicated, but no one is born knowing how to run LiPos safely.

[Tango Whiskey]

To be clear, I was being a bit facetious above...sorta. I figured it couldn't possibly be as dangerous and tedious as all the warnings on the net suggest. To the uninitiated reading all the warnings, it sounds like we're dealing with explosives and have to strictly follow a rigorous process to ensure we either don't burn down our neighborhoods at worst or fritter away a couple Benjamins at best! I was starting to question my sanity for wanting to play with this stuff!

[Doby]

Just make sure they are stored properly when at home.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...sly&highlight=

[Tango Whiskey]

Great thread, Doby!

But...holy cow! You didn't exactly help dispel my fears, sir!

[Doby]

Great thread, Doby!

But...holy cow! You didn't exactly help dispel my fears, sir!

Wasn't trying to

[Peter A]

Hi Tango
Welcome to OSE. I see your conundrum, but really although you have done some research online, a lot of it is the worst that can happen, and some people are just stupid! Anyhow, there is a lot of good info and help here (and opinions at times of course) but no one is going to try and put you wrong on purpose. Ask the questions you need answers to, especially in regards to setups, runtimes etc. You do not have to buy $100 batteries for sure, the Turnigy 40 or 60c 5000 mah batts are a lot less cost, will with stand racing and be fine for sport boating.
Like Fluid I have not managed to explode any lipos, and they will take a bit of hard treatment as long as you do not over discharge them. There are some good solid motor esc combinations that are proven to work well, so post up the boats you want to set up and guys will help you in the right direction, and of course Steven at OSE is a great bloke to deal with in regards to many of the parts you need. Any lipo charger comes with balancing feature, again there are good inexpensive chargers out there, I have two turnigy reactor 300w chargers, which are pretty much the same as the I charger 206 I believe at less than half the price. Storing batteries can be done in a suitable container, there are a couple of threads on this.
BTW I struggle with finding enough budget a lot of the time so I make do with what I can afford, I have managed to take several NZ championship titles and my Pursuit is the 'P Offshore' boat to beat here, as well as my Q hydro and I have several 2 lap records also. None of my setups are super expensive at all, TP motors and T-180 esc's with turnigy and revolectrix batteries, heck I even use a single HK GT-2 radio!
So jump in slowly, find your way and happy boating.

[oscarel]

Welcome Ted. Where are you located? There are a few here in TX that run FE boats and would be able to help out. One thing to consider is wading after a boat can be just as dangerous so please be safe and use some sort of retrieve boat.

[gsbuickman]

Hi, welcome to the board .*!**

Your probably the greenest new guy that we've had around in quite a while and it will probably take us a couple weeks to answer all of these questions. I have been running lipos for about 10 years myself but I started off back in the early Days of nicad as well.*!**


My first balancing lipo charger was a $30 Turnigy accucell 6 from hobby king. It was a 6 amp charger with a built in xh balance board and it worked great and lasted me 7 years before it died.*!**


I've never had a lipo explode or catch on fire because I follow a couple Simple Rules. I only charge them at 1 amp for every 1000mah's battery capacity. I do.t due 1/2 amps either. for example if I have a battery that's 3500mah , I charge it at 3 amps, not 3.5. Thats a no no. regardless of what anyone else tells you every time you charge your tax make sure that you balance charge them, because there are retards out there that will tell you you only need to balance charge them like once every fourth charge which is ridiculous and causes packs to be out of balance and swell up and possibly catch on fire*!**


For my sport boats I ru. 5000mah 40c as a minimu. I don't charge them and charging bags either, I charged them in an old pressure cooker. When I'm done using them and it will be a little while before I use them again I storage charge them and use the pressure cooker to store them in as well so it works out pretty well.*!**


it's past bedtime and I need some sleep so I think that's enough for now. I do think you need to read my sticky thread on swimming out to get your boots back.*!**

https://activeselfprotection.com/multiple-rifle-rounds-required-to-stop-murdering-ex-mma-fighter/

*!**There are a number of threads on retrieval boats but here is the latest one.


http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...7-Recovery-Rig


G'night *!**

[SD Eracer]

What I learn:
- I must charge the Lipos in a special bag, to mitigate property damage in the event they freakin' burst into flames or explode!!! But, the power leads on the batteries are only 3" long, so I can barely fit them in the bag when charging.

(I honestly never used a bag, so many safeguards in modern chargers, I just charge them in an area that won't burn my house down if there is an issue. Never had an issue in the years I've been doing Lipos.)

- I can't simply plug them into the charger and turn it on. A "proper" charger has more menus and options to select than my audio-video entertainment system!

(Not that challenging, your typical B6 charger menus does have a bit of prompts yes, but you can save most settings)

- If I charge them, I must use them within a day or 2 or battery life is greatly reduced.

(Charge them that night before you use them, but I've been lazy and allowed more than a week with a fully charged battery, no issues with it.)

- I must never leave them unsupervised while charging. So, in essence, if I have a set of 4 packs charging at 1C or so, I can't leave sight of them for the two hours it takes to charge them up?!!!

(Shouldn't take two hours, about 45-55 minutes to charge a lipo from 3.80v to 4.20v at 1C assuming 5000mAh regardless of cells. I have a 4 charger, so I can charge x4 6S Lipos in 45 minutes.)

- I must discharge them to 3.85 volts/cell before storing them long-term or life will either be greatly diminished or they become chemically unstable and freakin' burst into flames?!!! Since I assume they gradually lose charge over time even when dormant, does this mean I will need to periodically take them out of their protective hazmat-approved storage container and charge them back up to their "storage" charge or risk upsetting the electron gods?

(Hardly a big deal. My ESCs will hit the LV cutoff at about 3.80v, which means I don't even have to charge them for storage. Just use them and put away. They will stay at that charge for a long time, months even. I store mine in a Sentry Fireproof File Safe I bought on Craigslist for $25.)

- It's advisable to store them in a cool place. One site said 35-40 deg is ideal for storage. Do I keep them in my refrigerator? Another site suggested keeping them in an outside storage building for safety, but in the same article, it said never to store them in the heat. I live in Texas. There goes the outside storage building option, which means I must store these volatile &$#%!ers in my house!!!!

(Most people don't do this, this is on another level of anal in regards to Lipo care.)

- I'm advised to get a charger with a "balancing plug" connection, so it charges the packs so that all cells have the same voltage. I take a look at the balancing plugs on Lipo packs and chargers and they appear to be flimsy to me, yet the connection is pretty tight. So, I must connect and disconnect this flimsy couplings each time I charge and discharge...hundreds, maybe thousands of times during the life of the battery...and somehow not rip these flimsy connectors off the wiring when repeatedly disconnecting them from the tight connection?

(Never had an issue for the literally thousands of times I've taken them on or off. Cheap to fix or replace if you have to).

- There's no guarantee the Lipo packs won't burst into flames at random for no reason at all, even if I properly discharge to 3.85 volts/cell before storage... What the...?!!!

(Stop watching Youtube videos. Many many people have Lipo batteries for cars, planes, quads, and boats and don't follow the care you outlined above. It would be a national problem if these things just burst into flames randomly.)

On a side note, do not buy Lipos from a store unless you want to pay double or more. I prefer the Turnigy Heavy Duty 60C/120C series sold by Hobbyking, their 5000mAh batteries cost $25 at 2S, $37 at 3S, $67 for 6S as an example.

[Tango Whiskey]

Thanks a bunch for the warm welcome, fellas! Sorry it took me so long to return to the thread and reply; I've been pretty busy with work.

I appreciate all the good advice thus far! I will definitely take the advice on the retrieval boat, and I understand and agree with the arguments in favor of using that method for retrieving a capsized or otherwise "dead" boat.

As an update, I decided to go ahead and take the plunge and decided on my first FE boat, I would go with a RTR. After a lot of comparison and consideration, and since I decided to "go big or go home," I decided to get the Pro Boat Zelos 48 cat. With it, I bought (4) Reaction 4C 5000mah 50C packs and a 100W charger. I ran the boat this past weekend and had a blast! Being new to this, I haven't become a slave to the pursuit of speed yet, and the mid-50's speed I'm getting with this boat is plenty exciting and challenging to drive for me! I can only imagine what it would be like to drive one of those 70-100mph speed burners you guys have! I'm not sure my nerves could handle it!

Anyway, I decided to keep my batteries stored inside a charging bag, inside a metal ammo box, kept in my fireplace. Since I live in Texas, I rarely ever have good justification to use my fireplace, so keeping my packs inside a protected brick enclosure seemed like a good plan to me!

A little background on me... I'm a manufacturing engineer with a background in designing tooling and parts and I work for one of the major CNC machine tool builders. Because of this and my fascination with mechanical devices in general, RC was naturally a hobby that appealed to me. I am currently building a 1/4 scale airboat entirely out of welded aluminum that I CAD designed. It will use the OS FF-320 flat 4 cylinder 4-stroke nitro engine, spinning an 18" pusher prop. As a byproduct of my background and connections within the CNC machining world, if any of you have any interesting product ideas, I can probably help you with the design and get you in touch with someone who can manufacture your idea for you.

My other hobbies besides RC include hunting, shooting, guns, archery, and photography.

Again, thanks a lot for the welcome!

Ted

[Tango Whiskey]

Welcome Ted. Where are you located? There are a few here in TX that run FE boats and would be able to help out. One thing to consider is wading after a boat can be just as dangerous so please be safe and use some sort of retrieve boat.

I live in Brenham, TX (halfway between Houston and Austin), home of Blue Bell ice cream! Judging by my ever-expanding waistline, I probably need to consume much less Blue Bell, but my charitable nature causes me to want to continue helping the local economy!

Again, good advice on the retrieve boat. I've been looking at some of the designs here on the forum. Looks like I can build an effective one pretty inexpensively with PVC pipe, pool floats and some basic electronics.

[Tango Whiskey]

Hi, welcome to the board .*!**

Your probably the greenest new guy...

I prefer "pristine."

Good tip on the "1 amp per 1000mah" charging. Incidentally, I just charged my 5000mah packs @ 5 amps. I had the impression that charging at 1C is kinder to your packs in terms of longevity, but I also want to be safe.

Great idea on the pressure cooker too! That's an inexpensive storage method that I believe I'll adopt.

I appreciate all the great input, guys!

[Tango Whiskey]

Thanks for your replies to my questions as well, SD!

[gsbuickman]

I prefer "pristine."

Good tip on the "1 amp per 1000mah" charging. Incidentally, I just charged my 5000mah packs @ 5 amps. I had the impression that charging at 1C is kinder to your packs in terms of longevity, but I also want to be safe.

Great idea on the pressure cooker too! That's an inexpensive storage method that I believe I'll adopt.

I appreciate all the great input, guys!

Thanks ,


I'm here in the Boise area and here in Idaho we like our guns including me, and with the premium that ammo cans go for these days I have much better things to use them for *!**like storing shells in. At the mome.t I have an M252 *!**mortar *!**ammo can thats 14"x25x8"but I haven't made any final decisions on what I'll use it for so for the time being it's extra firearm storage. I have another ammo can that's 6"x8"x12" that I had an idea for but it's got 1k + shells i. It so I'll have to get another one because I want to make an ammo can tent stove like these :*!**

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H1wTzqVHUQU*!**

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pj4h454G8m8 *!**

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4LgArTl_BSU

I thought about storing my batteries in an ammo can as well but while I was digging thru a kitchen cabinet trying to make room for a bread maker that I bought I ran across that pressure cooker . Idk if it's been sitting down there since we moved in from the previous Canon or brother the ol' lady left it behind when she left but it's not something I wouldn't feel comfortable using as old as it is so repurposed it *!**for my packs *!**


In a worst-case scenario by storing all of my packs together like this if one of them was to burst and Catch Fire the chances are good it could chainreact and cause them all to go up


Thankfully *!**I haven't lost a lipo other than to one of the cell dying in it. I never run them completely dead and the low voltage cutoff kicks in and I always storage charge them before putting them away so I think that has a lot to do with i besides the fact I balance charge them every time. *!**Imo the two biggest killers of batteries are fast charging which puffs the cells and over discharging which does the same.