Help make sense of my collected data

**wuzofoz** · 07-24-2015, 02:16 AM

i have never got into the data side with setting up and can only agree with what you say on best prop based on speed and motor temp. the top speed seems slow for the boat size. what size is the 3000kv motor that's in it?

as for your other motor. is the 3650 a typo? we use the proboat 3630 1500kv with the 45amp ESC in a controlled class with most of the mono's getting 37mph + speed range

**tlandauer** · 07-24-2015, 02:30 AM

As far as I can remember, the Proboat's 1500kv motor that debuted in the Blackjack 26 and FASTech had the measurement of 36mm x 50mm. The "3650" would have been the correct number considering the can size. Proboat's part number was A3630-1500, a bit confusing but I think we are so used to refer by the can size of the motor these days. Good catch though........

**wuzofoz** · 07-24-2015, 05:15 AM

was only pointed out to see if i was commenting on the same motor or not. would be so much easier if they all used the same system

**Tamelesstgr** · 07-24-2015, 08:33 AM

Motor with the data collected above is a 13T version in the link below, 36mm x 50mm, but I am really suspect on the KV output in my boat versus a car. The OSE calculator with my combo's is about 40% slower accross the board when entering the calculations. My actual speeds make me think the KV acts more like 2200kv. I'm guessing it's just not the right type of motor for a boat. Too little speed and too much heat.

Lego head

http://www.hobbywing.com/product_show.asp?id=257

On the ProBoat website under discontinued Blackjack 26 products it shows a 3630-1500kv 6-pole motor

Sites-proboat-us-Site | Pro Boat

http://www.proboatmodels.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3300S

Pro Boat

I'll have to measure the motor when I get home, but I think it's longer than 50mm:

Sites-proboat-us-Site | Pro Boat

http://www.proboatmodels.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3310

Pro Boat

SPECIFICATIONS
Type:Brushless 6 Pole Inrunner Motor
Bearings or Bushings:Two 5 x 11 x 5mm Bearings
Voltage:10-21RPM/Volt (Kv):1500
Continuous Current:45
Speed Control:PRB3309
Overall Diameter:36mm
Shaft Diameter:5mm
Shaft Length:18mm
Overall Length:74mm

This is what my ESC looks like as well:

Sites-proboat-us-Site | Pro Boat

http://www.proboatmodels.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3309

Pro Boat

Water cooled for optimum performance without the need for large heat sinks
The soft start feature slightly limits current to increase the life of the electronic components
The ESC also features a cutoff voltage indicator that will stop the motor from operating if the batteries are reaching full discharge
Pre-programmed for use with Ni-MH batteries. Can be programmed for use with Li-Po batteries with PRB3311 Programming Module (sold separately)
Forward & Brake only

SPECIFICATIONS
Forward:Yes
Reverse:No
Brake:Yes
Continuous Maximum Current:45A
Input Voltage: Minimum 10V, Maximum 21V
Momentary Peak Current:55A
BEC Voltage:5.8V

**gearhd48** · 07-24-2015, 09:03 AM

RE:

Originally posted by Tamelesstgr

Motor with the data collected above is a 13T version in the link below, 36mm x 50mm, but I am really suspect on the KV output in my boat versus a car. The OSE calculator with my combo's is about 40% slower accross the board when entering the calculations. My actual speeds make me think the KV acts more like 2200kv. I'm guessing it's just not the right type of motor for a boat. Too little speed and too much heat.

Lego head

http://www.hobbywing.com/product_show.asp?id=257

On the ProBoat website under discontinued Blackjack 26 products it shows a 3630-1500kv 6-pole motor

Sites-proboat-us-Site | Pro Boat

http://www.proboatmodels.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3300S

Pro Boat

I'll have to measure the motor when I get home, but I think it's longer than 50mm:

Sites-proboat-us-Site | Pro Boat

http://www.proboatmodels.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3310

Pro Boat

SPECIFICATIONS
Type:Brushless 6 Pole Inrunner Motor
Bearings or Bushings:Two 5 x 11 x 5mm Bearings
Voltage:10-21RPM/Volt (Kv):1500
Continuous Current:45
Speed Control:PRB3309
Overall Diameter:36mm
Shaft Diameter:5mm
Shaft Length:18mm
Overall Length:74mm

This is what my ESC looks like as well:

Sites-proboat-us-Site | Pro Boat

http://www.proboatmodels.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3309

Pro Boat

Water cooled for optimum performance without the need for large heat sinks
The soft start feature slightly limits current to increase the life of the electronic components
The ESC also features a cutoff voltage indicator that will stop the motor from operating if the batteries are reaching full discharge
Pre-programmed for use with Ni-MH batteries. Can be programmed for use with Li-Po batteries with PRB3311 Programming Module (sold separately)
Forward & Brake only

SPECIFICATIONS
Forward:Yes
Reverse:No
Brake:Yes
Continuous Maximum Current:45A
Input Voltage: Minimum 10V, Maximum 21V
Momentary Peak Current:55A
BEC Voltage:5.8V

For what is worth, maybe check your drive shaft, I have ran some crap runs only to find out that I needed to upgrade the shaft to a OSE shaft due to higher Rpm's that the proboat shaft can't handle and found it in a state of twisting, any longer and I'd been missing it. Also your collet , check it also! With your set up with the 3000Kv motor you should be at the high 30's- low-mid 40's. again 2 cents worth, but I've ran mid-high 30's with the AQ 2030kv motor and a AQ 50Amp ESC for a 5min run on a 11.1v,5000Mah,50C battery. Depending what performance your looking for, I would drop the 3000kv motor for a 2000kv the AQ 2030kv or the 1500kv you have, I personally don't care for the Proboat ESC you said you had, but it could work, the AQ 45 is a decent one, but higher Amp ESC's are always better in my opinion. Let me know if what your expectations are with this and what your thoughts are with the parts you have and I can help you dial it in, if you'd like.

**Tamelesstgr** · 07-24-2015, 09:28 AM

I switched from the stock striaght coupler with the set screws 2 weeks ago because it ripped the end of the flexshaft off. Soldered it and am using a 3mm to .150 collet now. Since I have switched to the collet the motor temps have seemed to have increased quite a bit, too hot to touch for 5 seconds. I thought maybe the collet was heavier and adding too much load to the motor. The straight coupler weighs 8g and the collet weighs 7g, so I don't think that's the culprit.

If the shaft is an issue, can you help me understand what is happening? If the collet has a better "grip" of the cable is it more able to exert more force and twist the cable inside the tube and teflon liner? Could that be what's causing the heat issues and disappointing speeds?

I was up till 12:30 last night swapping in the 1500kv and ESC with the .150 collet. On 3s I'll only be turning around 16,650 rpms versus the 33,300 rpms from the 3000kv motor. No idea what to expect out of this combo, but I think I'll start with the stock ProBoat prop 1.34 x 41mm. In theory the 1500kv has more torque to spin a larger prop???

Goal is to run 30-35mph on 3s and not have any heat issues.

**gearhd48** · 07-24-2015, 10:42 AM

RE:

Originally posted by Tamelesstgr

I switched from the stock striaght coupler with the set screws 2 weeks ago because it ripped the end of the flexshaft off. Soldered it and am using a 3mm to .150 collet now. Since I have switched to the collet the motor temps have seemed to have increased quite a bit, too hot to touch for 5 seconds. I thought maybe the collet was heavier and adding too much load to the motor. The straight coupler weighs 8g and the collet weighs 7g, so I don't think that's the culprit.

If the shaft is an issue, can you help me understand what is happening? If the collet has a better "grip" of the cable is it more able to exert more force and twist the cable inside the tube and teflon liner? Could that be what's causing the heat issues and disappointing speeds?

I was up till 12:30 last night swapping in the 1500kv and ESC with the .150 collet. On 3s I'll only be turning around 16,650 rpms versus the 33,300 rpms from the 3000kv motor. No idea what to expect out of this combo, but I think I'll start with the stock ProBoat prop 1.34 x 41mm. In theory the 1500kv has more torque to spin a larger prop???

Goal is to run 30-35mph on 3s and not have any heat issues.

Yes , the reason for more heat after coupler change was it is working better, not the weight. Good move on changing it! Yes, recheck cable and liner, they get melted together, hence slower speeds. brushed motor boat shafts can go longer without greasing, brushless need to be checked and greased almost after every run to prevent binding. I use OSE Upgraded AquaCraft SuperVee 27 and 27R Cable and trim to lenth on my green Shockwave ( V3) but it will also work on the straight shaft Shockwave versions before it. Just make sure it has a snug fit and doesn't bind in the bushing. Good move on the motor change! From your prop list, try the 442, then the 445 then your 1.6 37mm, that one might be too small dia. but worth a try. I'm thinkin the 445 will do best. if that doesn't help you to get what your looking for try the Proboat 2000kv, comes in 4 or 6 pole, or the AQ 2030kv 6 pole, those for sure would get you 33-37 mph. Again if your ESC is getting too hot, you might want to go to higher Amp ESC or drop the prop size. Hope this helps.

**kfxguy** · 07-24-2015, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Tamelesstgr

I switched from the stock striaght coupler with the set screws 2 weeks ago because it ripped the end of the flexshaft off. Soldered it and am using a 3mm to .150 collet now. Since I have switched to the collet the motor temps have seemed to have increased quite a bit, too hot to touch for 5 seconds. I thought maybe the collet was heavier and adding too much load to the motor. The straight coupler weighs 8g and the collet weighs 7g, so I don't think that's the culprit.

If the shaft is an issue, can you help me understand what is happening? If the collet has a better "grip" of the cable is it more able to exert more force and twist the cable inside the tube and teflon liner? Could that be what's causing the heat issues and disappointing speeds?

I was up till 12:30 last night swapping in the 1500kv and ESC with the .150 collet. On 3s I'll only be turning around 16,650 rpms versus the 33,300 rpms from the 3000kv motor. No idea what to expect out of this combo, but I think I'll start with the stock ProBoat prop 1.34 x 41mm. In theory the 1500kv has more torque to spin a larger prop???

Goal is to run 30-35mph on 3s and not have any heat issues.

That's easy but I'm not sure if you have the right setup for the job. First off, the stock Esc and motorbinnrhat boat (1500kv) I was able to squeeze 22-24mph out of it. That was a while back. Knowing what I know now, maybe close to 30 I could get now. If I were you this is what I'd do:

1) seaking 120 Esc
2) castle 1415 or even easier a tp power 3640 or even a 3630. I'd get around 2200kv and it should run 35ish on 3s. Maybe faster.
3) CNC 443 prop

You should be able to bend the brass to adjust the prop

**Tamelesstgr** · 07-24-2015, 11:36 AM

Unfortunately there is no other purchase options right now, so it's the 1500kv setup or the 3000kv setup. Remember this is my kids boat so it needs to be manageable right now, just want to be able to have him run it without me worried everytime it's out there that it's going to melt down. So if a tamer 1500kv setup that runs cool and gets 25mph, I think that might be a good option for his driving skills right now. Another opportunity for me to be nerdly and gather data to analyze. Unfortunatley it's drawing attention away from my 32 mono build.

**kfxguy** · 07-24-2015, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Tamelesstgr

Unfortunately there is no other purchase options right now, so it's the 1500kv setup or the 3000kv setup. Remember this is my kids boat so it needs to be manageable right now, just want to be able to have him run it without me worried everytime it's out there that it's going to melt down. So if a tamer 1500kv setup that runs cool and gets 25mph, I think that might be a good option for his driving skills right now. Another opportunity for me to be nerdly and gather data to analyze. Unfortunatley it's drawing attention away from my 32 mono build.

Ok.

**NativePaul** · 07-24-2015, 12:17 PM

A 26" mono is about average for the Mono1 class we race here, our boats are stepped monos and race designed hulls so you could expect us to have a little more speed, but most are in the low 40mph range and get 6+ minutes from 3s 4500mAh so under 45A average, 3000-3500kv is a good range for us, but our motors are MUCH smaller than yours, we generally run long 28mm motors the Leopard 2860 3400kv being very popular, your 3674 will be consuming quite a bit more energy just to spin itself up, and it's maximum efficiency point will be at more amps than any of your setups were pulling.

It sounds like your collet could be rubbing on the motor, motors normally have a little endplay but are held roughly central by the magnetism, but the load from the prop will push the shaft right to the back, so it is possible that static you think you have a small gap between the collet and the motor or motor mount, but in use it rubs, push on the collet to see if the gap vanishes.

Likewise the flex will coil up slightly under load, reducing it's length so you need to allow a gap between the drive dog/prop nut and the strut/stinger to allow for it to shrink, the rule of thumb is to allow one cable thickness of gap.

1500kv will be no good on 3s, it will need a prop so big, you will spin the boat instead of the prop.

**Tamelesstgr** · 07-24-2015, 01:00 PM

Thanks for the information. On the 3000kv motor the collet is approximately .25" off the end bell of the motor, so no rubbing issue there. When considering the gap between the strut and drive dog is supposed to be .150, or the thickness of one strand f the cable? Say a few mm??

Great stuff guys, thanks for jumping in.

**gearhd48** · 07-24-2015, 02:07 PM

Hey are you down state or near Chicago?

**Tamelesstgr** · 07-24-2015, 03:09 PM

I live in Bolingbrook, southwest suburbs of Chicago

Help make sense of my collected data

Help make sense of my collected data

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