MHZ Lizard Extreme/ Delta Force/ Rio Racing - NAMBA P Mono

[Finest Racing]

Hello everyone. I know that there has been threads about this. I am searching for a rough water P Mono to run in NAMBA. I would be running 4S 2p most of the time. I am currently using a Pursuit. When the water is rough or a windy day, the Pursuit is tossed around. I have raced against other racers that are currently using the Rio and the Titan. The Rio received good reviews. I am thinking since the Pursuit is 9.44" wide, that a wider hull would improve handling for rough/windy conditions.

I though since some of the other threads have not had anyone make a post, maybe there has been more testing for more data to be reported.

I have read the results from the NAMBA FE Nationals and I do see that the Cyberstorm, Delta Force and the Pursuit are top leaders. I do not know how the water conditions are for those events. I also understand when you have 5 or 6 boats running you are causing rough conditions.

Any feedback to help me make a decision would be extremely helpful. I am not trying to be repetitive about the same subject. I would like to make the investment once. Thank you.

[Matias777]

Hello everyone. I know that there has been threads about this. I am searching for a rough water P Mono to run in NAMBA. I would be running 4S 2p most of the time. I am currently using a Pursuit. When the water is rough or a windy day, the Pursuit is tossed around. I have raced against other racers that are currently using the Rio and the Titan. The Rio received good reviews. I am thinking since the Pursuit is 9.44" wide, that a wider hull would improve handling for rough/windy conditions.

I though since some of the other threads have not had anyone make a post, maybe there has been more testing for more data to be reported.

I have read the results from the NAMBA FE Nationals and I do see that the Cyberstorm, Delta Force and the Pursuit are top leaders. I do not know how the water conditions are for those events. I also understand when you have 5 or 6 boats running you are causing rough conditions.

Any feedback to help me make a decision would be extremely helpful. I am not trying to be repetitive about the same subject. I would like to make the investment once. Thank you.

Aquacraft mini rio with neu 2215 and swoarfish 300a hv esc should be a killer.

[T.S.Davis]

Aquacraft mini rio with neu 2215 and swoarfish 300a hv esc should be a killer.

OKay that's just mean. haha

I'm partial to the Pursuit but they don't all come out of the mold equal. Maybe this is true of every manufacturer. I have built more than one. I currently have two. On one the bottom is dead straight. It's the most stable P boat I've ever run as long as you stick with something sane for a motor. 1521/1.5D is a nice option.

I found (just this week in fact) that my P limited version of the same boat has a wicked rocker in the bottom on the right side. Fixing it will be massive. It's that far off. Wish I had checked it before I built that danged thing. That's the variation from hull to hull I was talking about. Frustrating.

The Cyberstorm is a tough act to follow. I don't know about the production consistency. Don't think I've seen one that was awful though.

Another option for super stable in rough water is the 33" Titan. Not as fast but almost always finishes.

I'm guessing you were talking about the Rico mono and not the mini Rio. I've seen them run but not enough to have any useful input for ya. Sorry.

[T.S.Davis]

Missed one.

Lizard Extreme is a great boat too. Never tried it in P mono but I would think that would work. I was racing one before there were Lithium cells. I ran it on 12 to 26 Nimh in 2006. It was silly with the high cell count but pretty fast for it's time.

[Finest Racing]

Thanks T.S.
I will check the Pursuit out to make sure that the hull is not warped or uneven. That could be my problem. I am not trying to go 80+mph. I have been mid to high 50's without and problems. When the water is a little choppy and I see the other boats handling better. I wonder if I need a new boat or should I add a little weight to the front.

[T.S.Davis]

Not sure if it's weight. Are you racing Doug Junior? If so you have to keep in mind that his boats look that way because he's just that good of a driver. He could run a 2x4 with rubber band power and it would look the same.

The boat Doug won the 2014 NATS with was the Pursuit boat I built. I borrowed it earlier this summer and haven't given it back yet. That's the one I have with the straight bottom.

My limited boat is a mess. I thought it was the tabs. Nope.

[Matias777]

Hehe I meant mini rio I was been cheeky I race a jae 21fe and im actually looking at putting together a pursuit mono didn't know about the problems some of them have.We have two pursuit running in our club and they are fantastic, also one df 29 and a df33 all great boats when nicely setup and race trim my favourite off all of them is the pursuit with the tp 4050 2050kv killer combo.

[properchopper]

Here's some vid's to check out -

First (In the AZ WWIV 2008 alternate backslop pond) : Dave A's Liz EX holding the lead against my green DF 33 staying ahead of Bill M.'S Cyberstorm in the chopslop :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVgyk5KGceo

Dave Newland's red 33" Titan 40 (now in Ray P's possession) majorly kicking it ahead of the Cyberstorms. This is a FAST hull when set up light on it's feet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl7ik2fnUqo

To add another candidate to the mix : My white IB34 and Mark F.'s white IB34 battling it out with 2 Cyberstorms (including Tyler G's yellow rocket) and one Pursuit.Tyler's Cyber was the fastest but kersplooshed in the racewater (at 1:44 - you can hear Tyler's Uhh!). The IB34 isn't the fastest hull - it runs fairly wet with conservative frontal deadrise but it PLOWS ON where others have trouble :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ixeztr-wE

FWIW : Tyler offed the Cyberstorm & now runs a DF33 which is also WAY FAST & Ray P. is continuing Dave Newland's winning tradition with that dang Titan. Adding to the cornfusion, Susan O. took P-Mono D19 High Points last season with her IB34. IB34's took first & second in the last D19 race as well.

[zooma]

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Don't want to hijack this thread, but I m the third owner of a P-class Pursuit with a wavy bottom. It tends to hook in the turns. Is 46MPH a decent speed? Also I recently bought the RTR version from Hobby King and its perfectly flat. Do these all come from the same factory? Can't beat the HK price, and I can put the savings toward a competitive motor & esc.

[Finest Racing]

subscribed

Don't want to hijack this thread, but I m the third owner of a P-class Pursuit with a wavy bottom. It tends to hook in the turns. Is 46MPH a decent speed? Also I recently bought the RTR version from Hobby King and its perfectly flat. Do these all come from the same factory? Can't beat the HK price, and I can put the savings toward a competitive motor & esc.

Are you using the stock motor to run 46mph? If so, that is great mph for the stock motor.

[Finest Racing]

Not sure if it's weight. Are you racing Doug Junior? If so you have to keep in mind that his boats look that way because he's just that good of a driver. He could run a 2x4 with rubber band power and it would look the same.

The boat Doug won the 2014 NATS with was the Pursuit boat I built. I borrowed it earlier this summer and haven't given it back yet. That's the one I have with the straight bottom.

My limited boat is a mess. I thought it was the tabs. Nope.

Doug gave me some info about your Pursuit. I have the same motor in mine now. I am installing a Swordfish 240 Pro this week to test. I ran it this week with the new motor with the Seaking 180. It did not like it. Tomorrow I will check the hull. If it is the hull, I will need to think of a plan. I may make it a P Spec boat.

[Finest Racing]

Here's some vid's to check out -

First (In the AZ WWIV 2008 alternate backslop pond) : Dave A's Liz EX holding the lead against my green DF 33 staying ahead of Bill M.'S Cyberstorm in the chopslop :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVgyk5KGceo

Dave Newland's red 33" Titan 40 (now in Ray P's possession) majorly kicking it ahead of the Cyberstorms. This is a FAST hull when set up light on it's feet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl7ik2fnUqo

To add another candidate to the mix : My white IB34 and Mark F.'s white IB34 battling it out with 2 Cyberstorms (including Tyler G's yellow rocket) and one Pursuit.Tyler's Cyber was the fastest but kersplooshed in the racewater (at 1:44 - you can hear Tyler's Uhh!). The IB34 isn't the fastest hull - it runs fairly wet with conservative frontal deadrise but it PLOWS ON where others have trouble :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ixeztr-wE

FWIW : Tyler offed the Cyberstorm & now runs a DF33 which is also WAY FAST & Ray P. is continuing Dave Newland's winning tradition with that dang Titan. Adding to the cornfusion, Susan O. took P-Mono D19 High Points last season with her IB34. IB34's took first & second in the last D19 race as well.

The Red Titan was fast and stable. Nice.

Dave's Liz did a great job. The water condition for this race is what our water conditions are for about half of our events. That was calm water.

Thank you for the videos. They helped a lot. I have a plan B. If my Pursuit has a problem with the hull, I will need to decide between a Lizard or a Titan. A Rico will be a thought too. I have bought vehicles and homes with less thought and research. LOL

[zooma]

Are you using the stock motor to run 46mph? If so, that is great mph for the stock motor.

Oh, goodness, no. That motor was in the boat when I bought it. It's a TP power. Judging by its length, it is a 4050. Seller said it is 2200kv, but I don't see that kv listed for this motor. Running 4s2p, Seaking 180 V2 ESC, and s/b M445 prop. This old Pursuit is beat up and has several fiberglass repairs, but is competitive in our intra-club races. I bought the HK Pursuit for sport use now, and to put the hotter gear in later when needed.

So, the question for the board is: what am I giving up by getting the economical HK version instead of a special order from one of the on-line suppliers? The ones that I see advertised seem to have the same stinger and running gear.

[T.S.Davis]

pursuit mono didn't know about the problems some of them have.

I don't for sure know that they do. I'm hopeful that the problem with mine was that they rushed it to get it to me. They laid up a bunch of boats for me for the 14 nats. Think I assembled 6 boats or something before the 14 Winter Warmups. They had to hurry to get them to me. Could be that mine came out of the mold too soon. I received two carbon boats in the same shipment. One is perfect and the other has the camber. Who knows. It's fixable just check it before you build it instead of after like I did. Could have saved myself some headache.

The one that is straight is still the best P mono that I have personally driven.

Newland brought his Titan to MI for the 14 nats. It didn't win. Pursuit did but with Doug driving I suppose it could have been that 2x4 I mentioned.

The 33" Titan is super fun to drive. Very interesting strakes. Check those out if you get a chance. The T33 is nice and predictable. They don't do anything weird. Sometimes that is of more value than speed. A 7 or 8 boat heat where you have to pick off some guys ahead of you is brutal if your boat wont settle. haha.................I promise you there are guys reading what I typed and are laughing right now because reasonably fast and steady is SO not in my vocabulary. I shoot for ludicrous speed very nearly out of control all the time. I don't win that way but it's sooooo prittty.

[T.S.Davis]

Doug gave me some info about your Pursuit. I have the same motor in mine now.

For the Atlanta Spring Nats and the 2015 Mcup race I had even MORE motor. The boat is virtually un-driveable though. I've since dropped down to something more reasonable that can turn a 3 blade. It's not as fast but it's ton more stable. Can't wait to give it a go at the Can Am next month.

The HK version of the Pursuit runs pretty well right out of the box. Couple things that need to be addressed though.

It comes with a square drive. It works just fine but it's a nuisance to maintain. Could be as simple as making it easier to remove the shaft from the motor end. There is value in having your thrust transferred to the boat at the strut instead of inside the stuffing tube. I've spent zero time with this but I've seen it done so well that there is no denying that it's a viable option.

The other issue is reinforcing the stringer/motor mount brackets to the bottom. I'm not sure what they use to attach the stringers in there but it sometimes lets go. Mass production, different epoxy, IDK. It's especially suspect if your going to put a man sized motor in there. Some epoxy and a couple strips of glass cloth on each side will firm it up.

If you buy a bare hull you can put beastly stringers in it to take what ever motor you want without worry. I build mine to carry 2P and as much as a 1527 if I get a wild hair. I also build my limited boats for wire drive so a bare hull makes more sense for me.