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The outrunners have come a long ways... The heli outrunners I have are high rpm outrunners designed for big helis, and high rpm... That's not really my concern, airplane designed outrunners yes they can't take super high rpm... Seems you can turn a bigger prop with a outrunner so the needed rpm's should be slightly less as I could use a bigger prop setup...
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About the 2200kv leopard on 6s idea, heres the thing. You said you will be running in the ocean sometimes, those bearings will take a real beating and fast with the salt air/water exposure.
If it was me I would get the leopard 4082s with 1600-1800kv and run on 6s, after each run doing your best to fully saturate the bearings will prolong the life of everything imo. A setup that has technically survived freshwater use may not be as reliable once exposed to harsh conditions. Less rpm may or may not help but I think its your best bet. Or you could get the 2200kv, and just run on lower voltage in the ocean with higher mah packs.Comment
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I know... but sad part is here in Maine, the closest lakes from me in Portland are a decent drive... and the Ocean I can throw a stone to from my home, I think if I went with the 4082 I'd be crazy not to get the 2200kv because like you say I could run bigger 4s packs for sporting around, even 5s, and when I really want to let it rip throw in 6s packs, I'd be using t180's going that route so if I got the 1600kv and got bored with the performance I won't be able to try 7 or 8s, where as with the 2200kv's Ill be able to use all the motors and esc's have to offer if you get my drift... 6s on the 1600's is close to 4s on the 2200's... I also realize Ill want to have some replacement bearings on hand, does anyone know of any bearings I can upfit the 4082's to, to help prevent issues?Comment
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Yeah I think the 2200kv on 4s is probably better too. I have ordered from boca bearings a few times if you go on their site you can actually select the leopard 4082 bearing replacement and they have a kit already made up for itComment
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I've decided to go ahead with the 4082 2200's and seaking 180's...I have some turnigy sentilon HV 120 esc's I am going to try and add a water plate to so I can try the outrunners I have on hand for kicks too ... I have to try and see what it will do, I love the sound of the outrunners singing!Comment
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I would not be scared to run in salt water as long as you flush it out after running it. It's too easy to buy a Little pump and pump water through it after running. I'm actually going to start doing that as I run in some no so clean water and when I took a water jack off one of my motors last night it looked nasty.32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) wasComment
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Measure the bearings first. I went by the Castle kits and got totally screwed. Now the kind of bearing would be the yellow seal ceramic. These can be got with grease (NB2 I think) or oil for high rpm (AF2). Get your sizes and do a search. That website goes deep, slightly oversize and slightly under.
The orange seals are good too but at $18 bucks a pop...Comment
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The larger outrunners are rated for higher power, but speed is still going to be a factor of RPM/Prop/Drag. With the kv, voltage, and props you listed (x447) I would expect high 50s.Keith there is a MHz with tiny scorpion 3026/1900kv outrunners on YouTube running 60... The 4020's are twice the watts.... You really think it would only be that speed? Lol I def don't want that!!!! The dingy boats would outrun my MHz!!!
Keith these are tiny 500 size heli motors on 4s... I figured the 4020's would push it pretty hard, that is I figured in my own mind lol
Btw I was looking at the outrunners with lower amp draw as I thought I'd get good runtime?
In my experience, outrunners are less efficient as RPM increases, so in that regard I would expect less runtime than you might get running the same speeds with inrunner motors. There's absolutely no question IME that Lehner inrunner motors are the most efficient at high RPM/high current draw.Comment
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Yes, I was speaking in regard to the outrunner 890kv motors you mentioned.
For the record, to my knowledge, I've never recommended 4082 2200kv Leopard motors for goals similar to yours.
At 90mph, I would expect less than 2 minutes runtime. It shouldn't vary much regardless of your voltage chosen. You only have so much room/weight threshold so you could be carrying the same amount of power either way (Example 6s 6500, 8s 4800, 10s 3850, 12s 3200 are all going to get you similar runtime and would be on the heavy side in this hull).
MHZ has never sold working hydraulic simulators for that hull that I know of. They used to sell "dummies" (just for looks, the rudder still required a separate steering mechanism) but I haven't seen them in a while either. There are a couple types of functional hydraulics that can work on the 114, but they need to be mounted wider than they are on hulls with a longer standoff like the HPR. MHZ USA has been out of business for a few years now I think. If you need something from MHZ just order from the German site.
I personally think 4s is not enough for this hull, especially if you want high speed out of it. My honest opinion and advice is to get a clear vision of what you want/what's important to you, and keep expectations reasonable. I don't think fast, reliable, limited choice due to running conditions, and inexpensive are good friends. If you really want a "reliable" (a relative term in this case) 90mph boat, I would let go of the limitations and run Lehner. If you want to keep it a budget/China setup to run in unfavorable conditions, go with something like 1800-1900kv on 6s and keep prop size reasonable.
This setup is still more vulnerable to quality issues that may or may not be found in Chinese motors than a lower RPM setup would be, but it's more reasonable than 2200kv/6s. Not everyone agrees, and people can always point to youtube videos where someone ran a million miles per hour on xyz setup, but I can tell you in the long run there is definitely a difference. I ran the same motors in all my boats last year with no failures at all (ESC or motor) I ran 90-131mph a number of times, and I even ran 7 consecutive laps on the 1/3 mile oval course in Flint with a boat that hit 101mph during the run just to prove I could. I have had one Lehner motor failure in the last 3 years, and it was my fault (I didn't realize that one of the bullet connectors on the motor was not connected, just "laying" on the bullet on the motor. It took out both motor and ESC). I have seen others have failures with Lehner, but very few, while I have seen and experienced countless cracked magnets, locked rotors, and burnt windings on Chinese motors when used at high RPM and extreme speeds.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you can't go really fast with other motors, because you can. I'm also not suggesting that you won't find Joe Blow who has ran whatever setup a million times with no failures. I'm just telling you that if my goal is 90mph and reliable, there is only one road I take to get there.Comment
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I am having some real heartache over this keith! lol....
I have 34 BIG to medium size scorpion/hyperion outrunners coming, and I am thinking of running both some leopards and trying some HV outrunner testing... this guy above is running only 3026 1400kv's on 9s... I have a bunch of 3026 of various kv's, a bunch of 4020, 4025, and 4035's... not going to run the 4035's as just to big save for another project... I bought a stupid amount on a whim on closeout, and don't know what I was thinking except that I wanted them... thinking I'm going to get some of these http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...prod=etti-E064 to experiment with 10 and 12s outrunners and go with the leopards for fun... as you are stating the 6s 2200kv combo may not be very smart I understand... maybe 2000kv would be smarter, or just running 5s with the 2200's...
The MHZ I got from rcbidder already has some of the work done for the push/pull servo single arm setup... wondering if anything negative will come from just using that setup... hull is going to the local graphic shop as I decided to keep the yellow gelcoat and just add some nice wrap style graphics... I guess I won't get to caught up in the motor decision... I really just don't want the lehners as its to much stress for me thinking about the salt hitting them, my speed goals are only goals and I'd be happy with just having it reliable and fairly fast... I had outrunners in some boats before and just loved the flipping noise... lol... so I have to try them at least... I also have a bunch of 6s 3300's and 3700's in multiple like packs from my helis so it makes sense to give them a try too... I still cant believe the above vid on 3026 scorps... what kind of speed do you think he is running? My 500 size helis with those 3026's pulled around 65 amps flying hard, and 30-40 amps for just sport flying... gave me 6 mins of 3d big air fast flight, or 8 minutes of slightly faster then normal sport flight... I cant imagine hes not getting 3:30 to 4 minutes of runtime with those 3026's...
Keith thanks for your responses... its been awhile for me so I'm not close to up to snuff on these motor choices, I appreciate your help!
Jason-Comment
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890kv on 10s is a LONG way from 1400kv on 9s J. You're comparing 33k RPM to almost 47k RPM. A larger motor by default is not faster.
By just looking at the vid I would guess around 80-ish mph? For fun I would guess with x447s.
I guess I have to ask what you mean by "runtime" J. Are you referring to the amount of time the boat would run at full throttle? Or just the time you can spend in the water on/off the throttle, partial throttle, etc. When I tell you 2 minutes, I am referring to the first scenario. Of course depending on how you run, that might be 10 minutes. You aren't going to get the same "full power" runtime at 90mph that guys get at 50mph though. You could get a little more runtime by going with the heavier lipo setups I mentioned, but it will cost you in regards to handling.Comment
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absolutely Keith on the rpm.... I totally realize that... If going with the 4025/890's on 10s or 12s I'm fairly certain the MHz could turn x450/3 blades would it not? ...or even thinking of the 910kv 4020's on 12s... 12s 3300 or 3700's... But I have a bunch of 1400, 1600, 1900 3026's also bit thought they were a little small then saw that German running them. I won't be running wide open more short 3 or 4 second passes with some slow poking mixed in :)... I'm not turning this boat into a showpiece either by any means.... Btw what is it about the 4082's you don't like? The 5mm shaft for 2200's at 6s rpm is a little scary for long term on a 82mm can is what scares me a bit, I know the 1527's don't like high rpm with the 5mm so I imagine the 4082 isn't all that much happier and don't want the rotor bouncing of the can
Lastly Keith do you think those ettis are a good choice? Or should I go for higher amp esc's such as the swordy 240hv? Have you heard of the swordy 240hv working on as low as 4s as the benefit for those would be being able to run them with 4082's/NEUs/lehners (not that I'm buying lehners anytime soon lol) but the swordys would be able to sit in the boat for good where I'd be going from Etti hv's to t180's messing around with outrunners and Inrunners...
I was just amazed that those little 3026's pushed that boat so well... Pretty good for 1650 watt continuous motors but I imagine his setup is closer to 2500 watt bursts per motor or so .....I'm sure it's running those little duffers pretty hard!
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