Local clubs.......P limited question

[darryl whitman]

ok guys , I'm new to this and got 1season in now , went to Ill , to the 2014 race, my boats, 20 sport, an tunnel hull, r set up P spec, I was placed in P limited, luckly I took 2nd in Sport 20, not because the boat was fast,
no way to a P limited boat, just good driving, I talked to others boaters , on what they run, an the feeling r ,
run - 4s batts , any esc's, with 36xx can motor, 1800 to 2200 kv, The 1 thing I did not see was a pit inspection on these boats. I hope I'm not stepping on toes

[T.S.Davis]

Terry,
IMO, If you want a guy to be able to race his RTR you're going to have to offer a RTR class.

Yep, did that. The boats are discontinued. I can't ask them to run a new RTR class every year.

This argument that a RTR can't compete doesn't hold water for me. Our club results are proof. It's not because those guys are racing against slouches either. They've spent the time and effort to work the boats, find the sweet spots, and put the boats in the right spots to win.

If you throw a Revolt in without learning it's quirks you'll get stomped but with some time it does work.

Guess I'm just frustrated. The RTR market has been gutted by bean counters. I'm not seeing a clear answer that works as Mike described. Both locally and nationally.

[Mike Caruso]

I have to add this; I feel one thing that is hard for a new person to take is when the boat flips, goes turtle and takes them 20 minutes to get it back to shore. We have all lived it and lived through it right. That way you don't loose time having fun driving the boat. I know it won't work for every style boat but Mono's and Vee's can be made to do it easy. Then when the people know the fun that can be had running boats they will stay with RC Boats. I feel it is time for IMPBA and NAMBA to make a mention of a Race Day Time saved by running self-righting hulls. Also much safer than upside down flying lawn mowers LOL
Mike C

[Brushless55]

Whatever you tell them...never turn them away and let them run what they brung (if they have a boat already)....best way to get people hooked and then they can figure out what their next boat will be.

yes...

[TheShaughnessy]

I gotta be honest, It wasn't the boats that got me into racing, it was the people. I had a SV 27 for a coupe years before I got a geico. A short time after that I called Russell Stark to inquire about racing. What do you have? He asked. I told him. Ehhh I guess you could run open..? For those that don't know Stark is a petrol guy, he didn't really know how to help me, but that didn't stop him. He invited me out to the next race and said well figure something out.

Before entering any sort of competition I decided to head out and watch. When I got there I was impressed, easy ups and and boats everywhere with over 100 heats being run that weekend. I started taking pictures and videos to journal the day. I decided to try and make some friends so I found a circle of guys and started chatting. They quickly learned I was an electric guy and the shunning began haha. Someone pointed a finger and said, "that is the guy you want to talk to. They were talking about properchopper.

Tony was excited! Another FE guy. He pulled up a chair and said, " here, take a seat". He then began to explain the different classes and a multitude of other things, one being, don't be surprised if you don't finish many heats. It took me(tony) several years(I forget the number) before I was consistently finishing heats P-mono? Couldn't I run my sv27 in that class. Tony resisted the urge to laugh and broke the news that I really wouldn't stand a chance, p limited cat wasn't even a thought I don't think. Great, two boats and neither one was worth a damn on the Oval.

It wasn't long before he convinced me to buy his old Vegas so I could join in on the action since p-lim hydro was one of the two offered classes. I struggled with that boat and to this day have never had it running good.

The first couple seasons I raced my attendance was spotty. But when I did go I was met with some of the best comradrie I've ever experienced. Didn't matter if I needed a snack or a soldering iron, someone was there to offer it up without a second thought. This mentality is ultimately what keeps me coming back for more.

Anyways the point of this is that it doesn't matter what class we run. If we build relationships instead of a rule book then folks will buy the boats and equipment they need to. Sure lots of us are on a budget and can't buy a new boat every season, but we all know what B.O.A.T stands for and most of us are willing to shell out hard earned cash in the name of FE racing.

S.W. : some will, some wont , so what who cares. People will come and go, but the deeper we build emotionally the more " stuck " folks will become.

I'm often running around without sense or direction on race day, but if a passerby stops to inquire I make a point to be kind, courteous , and hopefully informational.

I usually suggest a Lucas oil, motley crew, or geico since the only limited class we run out here is cat

[T.S.Davis]

You just described the very essence of my addiction. haha

So many times I've had things go wrong and had a racer pull parts from his box. I even had a guy pull the motor out of his boat in a class he was racing against me in so that I could keep racing. Who does that? Only an FE guy would do something like that. Might have been the final nail in my FE pine box.

Our whole MMEU race program revolves around and is based on P limited. The guys that have them will want to continue racing them as they have been. And why not? They're super fun classes and nobody is light years ahead of the pack. LSH is a free for all but that's the only class where performance fluctuates much. Relatively cheap in the grand scheme too. We run other higher performance stuff too but point of entry and primary focus is limited.

I don't want our gang to just put our collective heads in the sand and wait for our numbers to dwindle before we react. We need a path. We have to keep inspiring new guys to come play with us. Sure the camaraderie will hook them but the key I think is......."get them to come out and play"

Mike mentioned a local goal. Mine is "get boats on the water". Do that and FE and it's people sells itself.

[Darin Jordan]

This argument that a RTR can't compete doesn't hold water for me.

Me either, Terry... It's a crock of $hit... Proof is in the podiums...

Guess I'm just frustrated. The RTR market has been gutted by bean counters. I'm not seeing a clear answer that works as Mike described. Both locally and nationally.

You guys are cracking me up... Until AQ, TFL, Pro Boat, Atomik, etc... announce that they are going out of business, there are going to be new RTRs hitting the market, and there are BOUND to be a couple that fit.

The key is making the classes MORE accessible to the RTR offerings, not less!

Traxxas has an ENTIRE racing class pretty much dedicated to the idea in the car world (SCT, SC-10, etc...)

It was the entire point of creating the P-LTD classes based around "readily available RTR power systems"...

I'm fine with you guys wanting to attempt to add more power options to the class, but if you deviate from the formula, you kill it...

[Doug Smock]

Proof is in the podiums? In what classes?
How about O/B Tunnel and Sport Hydro?

It sounds like this is turning into an organization thread. Carry on fellas.

[Mike Caruso]

Everyone who wants to race must be able to race.
Maybe a simplely added to the Std. P class like P1 = 38-42 mph out of the box, and P2 for faster 50 mph boats out of the box. That way the new people at least get some side by side action. Nothing worst than feeling like your boat is in the way of the fast ones. Because that leads new people to THINK what am I doing here?
Who remembers the 70's when .40 size K&B Torpedo loop ported engine ran in the same class with faster Pylon multi port engines and were just out classed.
Don't get me wrong way out in front is a fun place to be when racing Ha. Young kids today are great with eye to hand but will not listen to BS or put up with it at all they don't need a club. We have to change and make everyone WANT to be at the pond or lake.
Best to all.

[Darin Jordan]

Proof is in the podiums? In what classes?
How about O/B Tunnel and Sport Hydro?

It sounds like this is turning into an organization thread. Carry on fellas.

Doug,

How many people jump into racing with an O/B Tunnel??

Revolts, IM31s, Geicos, Lucas Oils/Motley Crews, BJ29s, Mystics, and, Yes, even the occasional TS-3, VS-1, or Stiletto, have all made podiums in P-Ltd... some, even at National events.

If it wasn't for boats being available that are READY to run, whether they are custom built by someone, or offered from a manufacturer, you wouldn't have HALF the racers you do now. PERIOD. If you go to a PSFEMBC race, you'll see entire Sport Hydro classes filled with FE30s, all built by one guy (it's like Spec-FE30... yawn...). It's pretty rare, frankly, that people actually build their own stuff to start off with.

Anyhow, if a guy shows at the races, and you tell him he has to order a pile of parts and build for 3 weeks before he can experience going racing, he won't... in most cases.

P-LTD, to this point, has gotten "out of scope" from what it was originally setup to do... People are pushing the power systems beyond what the RTR equivalents would have done. They've gotten bigger, heavier, less lift, etc... all to go faster, faster, and even faster.

The result? "We need bigger power systems"... "more reliable power systems"... etc, etc.

It's called "rules creep", and it kills off every class, especially Spec or LTD classes, eventually...

[T.S.Davis]

It sounds like this is turning into an organization thread. Carry on fellas.

I said it was a loaded question.........

It's really not an organizational thing. I think we all forget sometimes though. NAMBA and IMPBA both want/need/are required to do what it's members want/need. The class structures in both books came from grass roots efforts. Heck, FE racing would have died with the end of Nimh were it not for some guys going out and testing and even racing with no classes to race. Somebody had to forge ahead and find a path. P limited classes were a transformation of LSH and LSO. Relatively quick with a built in supply of reasonably priced RTR boats that could race instantly. Guys went out and ran the heats without anything in the rule book. Grass roots development. It was proposed based on that and here we are.

NAMBA P Limited racing has been great for FE racing. Some will argue but the numbers don't lie. They're the most heavily contested classes at every major event.

The fact that there is a gap in the market right now isn't NAMBA's fault. It was a great ride. I don't think we're done with "limited" yet but we need to go back to the grass roots level and figure out what will continue to put boats on the water without turning completely away from the formula that historically has put more boats on the water than any thus far.

Doug,

For the 2014 season
P limited Cat
1st place - Motley
2nd place - Fire Dragon
3rd place - Lucas

P limited mono
1st place - Pursuit (not the RTR)
2nd place - Revolt
3rd place - Titan29

P limited offshore
1st place - Revolt
2nd place - Pursuit (not the RTR)
3rd place - Revolt
This one came down to the last heat and Mark pulled it out in the end by .75 laps after a whole season. That's one cut buoy. One jumped start. Yikes.

P limited sport
All Whips
PLS is almost all custom boats. There are two UL1 and they barely survive the heats. They're fast enough but get weird at that speed. I never recommend a sport to a new guy anyway.

We don't run tunnel. The only RTR tunnel I'm aware of is the Proboat and they build those like they're going to take gun fire from shore.

Last season Revolts finished 1st and 2nd in Offshore.

Worth noting too is that our Revolts are all running the stock AQ speedo. So they're not using esc timing to build a better mouse trap. The insistence of some that open speedos would screw up the works are simply uninformed.

[T.S.Davis]

Darin, your spot on about the participation. The numbers are the numbers. haha Resistance is futile.

I think you're off on the pushing too hard thing. Results will vary but AQ dominated our club with stock parts. I doubt we'll ever agree on that issue.

You're missing my point I think.

The problem isn't rules creep IMO. The boats simply aren't available anymore. PB's offerings wont be legal soon and AQ only makes a cat that is viable. There's the UL1 but that's a tough boat to race. Leaves a new guy with one single option.

Lucas Oil.....................and that's it. We wont be experiencing the success we have with one single off the shelf boat to send a new guy out for. Tom is working on an RTR version of the Pursuit but same problem...........the motor list. Plus who knows how long that will take.

I wasn't trying to make it an organizational thread but our rules specify a motor from a boat that isn't competitive (UL1) and another that is very competitive (Lucas). Then there are the PB motors that are discontinued. Once the stock of Dynamite motors is gone they're gone.

We're down to two motors and one RTR.

Soooooo...........? Then what?

The grass roots thing to do is concoct a recipe, test it out, and then have NAMBA react through the traditional proposal process. That's how we got limited in the first place. We ran with it.

[longballlumber]

Terry - I’m still struggling to understand what you’re trying to “fix”. It seems that you continue to mix the problem/solution with our local club and National NAMBA rules. Neither has the same answer or the same problem as far as I am concerned.

Locally – Unless, I am missing something, you’re describing a problem that doesn't exist. Do we have people standing in a line with $$$ in their hands asking what to buy? If they want to buy a ProBoat product let them buy it and run it. Why is that difficult at the local club level?


Nationally - it's more complicated, there are records involved as well as one race a year (The Nats).

[RandyatBBY]

I wonder what they are selling for a motor in the Blackjack 29 and the Impulse 31?

[Doug Smock]

Ahh, pardon my ignorance fellas. We don't run Limited cat or mono. If I had to run two more limited classes I'd be running nothing but open mono, hydro, tunnel, and my 1/8 scale.
I honestly think we are on a ditch the limited classes in favor of a "any P class RTR" path. The guys running the class can figure out the what's what.
The limited classes aren't keeping anyone's interest here. We think it's time to try something else. Maybe Q or Q Limited with some P classes?

Good luck with this guys!

Got to go make final preparations for some knee surgery tomorrow! Apparently I have exceeded it's specifications.