Neu motor questions...

[Raydee]

Mike there was a good description of the Y vs. D wind on the RRR board. I will see if I can dig it up but for the most part yes it has to do with the way they are wound. Y motors will have more torque while D motors will have more RPM given the same wind. D motors also can pull more amps because of the wind configuration.
I am just a Sport boater so all I run is Y wind motors in a attempt to keep my amp draws down and save burning up controllers. For me even though the Y wind motors have less RPM they make up for it in torque. It always amazes me that a 1515 1Y can pull a 45mm prop without breaking a sweat compared to a 2 pole motor that may run a 40mm prop and het pretty hot. On the other hand for a smaller boat using a very large prop isn't always a good thing either so its a balancing act.

Here is one thread reguarding Wye vs Delta winding's

http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/feforums/showthread.php?t=20539&highlight=delta

[properchopper]

re :

Most of the people that run Neu motors don't have any motor chart. We go by what others have run and what have worked for them. That is why when you ask "I have a 37" boat running 4s, what new motor can I run" you will get people saying "Here is what I run and here is what it does". Nobody is bragging about anything. We are here on the forum to learn and to help, its no wonder why the FE Vets that used to help and post have since stopped. I run Neu motors and Fiegao motors and all of my setups have been recommended to me by someone that knows better and had run the setup in the past.

Well said

[ReddyWatts]

I added Neu motors to the general guideline. The Neu/Feigao-KB45 motor columns are recommendations by hull length. The number of cells will determine the motor KV.

There are to many variables for this data to fit all the different hull and motor loads. Many setups will fall outside this general information guideline. This is mainly for showing a structure of setups so you will see a "Big Picture" for a better understanding of FE.


--hull size /----------Cells---------/ -Motor Kv--- / -------Prop Size------/-Type ESC-/-BEC-/ESC Amp Rating / Neu / Feigao 540-KB45

17”- 24”/2 cell LiPo or 6 cell NiMh/5500 -3200Kv/ 30mm - 40mm Diam. / Low Voltage / Avail. / 120 amp/ 1506,1509/Feigao S-L

20"-27" / 3 cell LiPo or 8 cell NiMh / 3500-2500kv / 35mm – 42mm Diam. / Low Voltage / Avail. / 120 amp / 1509,1512/Feigao L-XL

24”-29”/4 cell LiPo-12 cell NiMh/2650-1600Kv/37mm - 46mm Diam./Low Voltage/Disc~Avail/120-240 amp/1512,1515/Feigao XL

26”-32"/6 cell LiPo or 18 cell NiMh/1800-1100Kv/40mm - 52mm Diam./L or H/Disc./120-180-240/1512,1515,1521/Feigao XL-KB45

30"- 36" / 8 cell LiPo or 24 cell NiMh/1350-800Kv/45mm – 55mm Diam. / High Voltage / N/A / 180-240 amp / 1515,1521 / KB45

34" - 42" / 10 cell LiPo or 30 cell NiMh / 1100-600Kv /47mm + Diameter / High Voltage / N/A / 180-240 amp / 1521,1527 / KB45

38" - 46" / 12 cell LiPo or 36 cell NiMh / 900-550Kv / 50mm + Diameter / High Voltage / N/A / 240 amp / 1527,2215 / N/A

Always start testing with a small prop and work up to your desired amp readings!

[Eyekandyboats]

Reedy. i still think you need to eidt that some.
i am running a 54 MM on my 2s boat
and a 47-51 on my 4s
and a 42 MM on my 8s
there are many discrepancies with that

[ReddyWatts]

Neu and Lehner offer brushless motors with wye or delta winding connections. I always wondered, "what is the difference in performance", so I will try to explain, what my simple mind could understand about it. Hope it helps.

The WYE motor winding is used in higher torque or higher voltage applications. Typically, DELTA motor winding is used in lower voltage or higher speed applications. A motor with windings in delta configuration gives lower torque at low rpm, but can give higher top rpm. wye configuration gives high torque at low rpm, but not as high top rpm.

If you take a Wye winding motor (1000kv)and change it to a delta winding motor you will see it change to 1732kv. You will see a higher kv motor with less torque. Torque will be reduced by 43%. ("KV" is how many unloaded rpm the motor will run for each volt that is connected to it.)

Three phase motors come in two wiring patterns. It is called Delta because the three phases are hooked together in a triangle arrangement. Phase one uses terminals A & B. Phase two uses B & C. Phase three uses C & A. In electrical talk the phases are 120 degrees out of phase with each other. You could think of it as firing order in a multi cylinder gas engine. The Electronic Speed Control (ESC) first talks to or sends power to phase one. Then it waits 120 degree and sends power to phase two. And at 240 degrees it sends power to phase three. At 360 degrees (120 X 3) the whole process starts over again.

Y wind where each leg of the Y is a phase and the center of the Y is common. Y wind typically has higher winding resistance as two windings are in series for each phase. This is why some controllers have problems with delta motors. Delta gives a lower voltage feedback pulse to the controller.

The delta winding could be used in a a lighter, lower voltage. high rpm setup or a hydro that does not require as much low end torque. The more effecient wye winding works in all applications and is better for heavier mono or cat setups.

EXAMPLE of the same motor wired delta and wye.
NEU
1521/1.5y = 1050 rpm
1521/1.5d = 1850 rpm

1521/1.5Y will handle from 8-55 volts and is a 90%+ effecient motor with more torque. Max effeciency amps 50.

1521/1.5D will handle from 8-32 volts and is a 85%+ effecient motor with less torque. Max effeciency amps 90.

All rating calculations between the motors have a 1.732 relational value between a Wye and Delta connection.

Thanks to Skeeler for this information;
Neu motors are named DDLL, where DD is the stator diameter, and LL is the rotor length, both in tenths of an inch. For example,

1512 motor
Stator diameter: 1.5 in
Rotor length: 1.2 in

http://www.drcwebservices.com/ffe/neuspecs.htm

[ReddyWatts]

Thanks EyeKandy, I agree but its hard to make it fit all the setups. There are too many variables for it to cover everything. I am only trying to make something that is very complex, easier to understand.

I really would not want to tell newbies to use extreme setups without a lot of experience. This is just a general guideline to help beginners get a better idea about setups. Hopefully they will keep an eye on their amps and discover setups like yours.

Reedy. i still think you need to eidt that some.
i am running a 54 MM on my 2s boat
and a 47-51 on my 4s
and a 42 MM on my 8s
there are many discrepancies with that

[lonewolf]

I totally understand about asking for recomendations and have done so already for the 37 in mono.
But with all the talk about neu being so much better than say feigao. a guy might tend to under guess a certain motor.

I went to the neu site (link posted at end) and found some good info there.
There is even an application chart there however it is for planes.

Ok back to boats. I want to run 12-16 cells so I would be looking for a kv of about 1700-2700. Just going by that alone there are 6 motors to choose from. From there I could narrow it doen by going to can length.
I will work with my 37 in mono for example(not looking for a recomendation)
I am thinking a can length of 2.4 or more. (I could be wrong neu's are so much better than feigao)
My list would look like this:
1512/2.d 2600kv 12 cells
1512/2.5d 2000kv 12-16 cells
1512/3d 1700kv 12-16 cells
1512/1.5y 1900kv 12-16 cells

1515/1.5d 2700kv 12 cells
1515/1y 2200kv 12-16 cells
1515/2.5d 1700kv 12-16 cells

1521/1.5y 1860kv 12-16 cells

1527/1d 2160 kv 12-16 cells

This is quite a range of motors. Not really understanding their power/torque it could be a really difficult choice and expensive if wrong...

Ok i could just ask someone what they recomend but I havent learned anything, I have only gone by anothers suggestion. I have learned what makes their boat go fast. Ok thats how the founding fathers did it and thats great and I will and have asked a few already.

But at some point I would like a little more basis to make a choice on...

BTW by this chart I would narrow my choices to
15122.5d
1515/1y
1527/1d

From here I would break it down by hmmmm price and go with the 1515/1y


Ok gurus how did I do
I used info i got from the neu site....

here is the link to the Neu site for those who dont have it:

http://www.neumotors.com/Old/index.html

Thanks Dave

[lonewolf]

Sorry guys I missed a few posts while I was researching my post. I need to go back and re read what I missed

[lonewolf]

I would break my choice down to a 1515/1y for my set up and be able to run the packs 4-6s would that sound about right for a 37 in mono???
What would be the ampdraw(aprox) for this motor in a 37 in mono?

Thanks Reddy That is the kind of info I am(and possibly many others) looking for.
It gives a guy a better way to understand these motors and have a better chance of finding a motor properly suited.

Now a guy less experienced can at least get a ballpark idea of what to look for.

I by no means am saying to skip getting advice. But at least a guy has a starting point and can do a bit of window shopping with a basic guideline to see what he needs to save/spend..


Again Thanks Reddy for taking the time to lay out that chart. It might be something that once more finalized may be set up as a sticky...... You can bet I will print it up and keep it handy
Thanks Dave

[Raydee]

Dave I wouldn't run a 1515 1Y in a 37" mono unless it runs real light on the water. Guys have run them in 33" mono's but I think a 1521 might be a better option for that hull. That is just me though someone else may disagree?

[lonewolf]

All in all without looking at prices or cells I would tend to agree.
I made a choice by looking at the kv and number of cells.

Ok here is another line of thinking. If you stuff all these extra packs of cells into a hull heck ya ya need a bigger motor just to compensate for the weight,,Or am I offbase with this thinking???

[Raydee]

No you are not off base. My Whiplash hull is heavy and on 4s lipo I think I could have went with a 1521 instead of the 1515.

[lonewolf]

My reason for bringing that up is not only the cell weight but my 37 in mono is just a bit heavier than my titan (nitro)hull. I am not planning on getting a neu now but I wanted to get the info out there for myself and others.