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According to them, they were just reorganizing. That may be a nicer way to describe shutting down, I don't know, but either way, they have restocked the CF Fantasm from 0 to 10 over the past week, so I doubt they are totally out of business
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Well, you've got me, I don't know what fightercat is today because some stuff they restock and others nothing. I'd love another 4092 2200kv but, even the maker, TP Power is not making that motor anymore unless it's a custom order. Suppo stopped making the 2200kv outrunner, no big esc's anymore, mainly hulls and some hardware.
I thought TFL made the 41" Fantasm hull in CF and glass??? If so, that's where I'd be knocking.
Nortavlag Bulc Comment
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Can you help me with a website? I search for TFL and I don't even get the Zonda let alone a page that I can order fromComment
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That's all I get. No help there.........lolComment
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I'm debating whether or not I should really throw my hat in the ring here...
Travis is a great guy and I totally understand why he would be disappointed in this hull coming apart. However...
My personal opinion here is that the maker of the hull, TFL, would be the person I would send an email to if I were to send one (or KBB, which Travis has already contacted). I would only do so to let them know of my experience and see if it's something that has occurred in other people's hulls. That way if there was a problem they could correct it. I wouldn't expect anything in the realm of a refund. Fighter cat wouldn't have any responsibility in this manner.
I don't understand the position that some people in this hobby take (not talking about you, Travis. I'm referring to some of the other comments in this thread and many others I have seen over the years). If I ran a hull for a season and had issues with it at the end of the year, I would be focused on addressing the issue myself (fixing it if it can be fixed or replacing it if it can't). I wouldn't expect to "take it back to where I bought it". To me that seems ludicrous. I believe Travis was running 80 something MPH with this hull. I'm sure it's been crashed/flipped a few times as well. If people can run a hull at 80mph and get a new hull any time it breaks, guess how many people will continue to sell Chinese hulls? Are you guys aware that sometimes SAW racers will loose their entire investment ON THE VERY FIRST RUN?
Now in a situation where a hull comes apart on the first run or something, I think a lot of companies would consider it a defect and take care of the customer, but nobody provides a perpetual hull replacement plan. If they can afford to replace them I can assure you that they're charging way too much for the hull in the first place.
I get this type of sentiment all the time with build inquiries. Someone sees a video of one of my boats and wants me to build one that will perform just like it, but with a Chinese hull, hardware, and Chinese motors and ESCs. I can only assume that they think I'm a total idiot for paying 3x the price for HPR, MHZ, Lehner, MGM, Schulze, etc. if the same feat can reliably be accomplished with Chinese parts (I'm not saying it can't, but the word "reliably" is important here). Why would anyone ever pay over $1k for a HPR if a $300 hull was just as strong, nice, etc. Why would I buy a $900 Schulze ESC if I can buy a $200 HK and get the same results? The point I'm trying to make here guys, is that this is how the free market is supposed to work. If the cheaper stuff has a higher rate of failure, some people will elect to pay for top of the line components, while others will save some money and choose to gamble. YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH! Travis knows this, that's why he's building a carbon Kevlar MHZ. Still, they ALL break guys. Running high speeds with a RC boat is a risk, and that won't change. It took one unlucky flip with my HPR 135 bulletproof to totally destroy the hull (one that's about 10X as thick as a FC Fantasm) , and that was on a run where I was running lower voltage and smaller props in order to be "safe" at over 30mph less that what I had previously ran. Sometimes unlucky things happen. Some of us will quit the hobby all together, some of us just move on. I can assure you though, if you're running outside of "sport" speed, you will have unfortunate experiences, it's inevitable.
We are all responsible for our decisions as consumers. I am a consumer here, as well as many other places. If I chose to buy a plastic prop instead of a beryllium, stainless, etc. prop and it shreds or breaks a blade, I consider it a lesson learned. It wouldn't mean that plastic props are useless, just that they aren't right for my application, and I would apply that knowledge to future purchases. I definitely wouldn't expect a someone to hand me a new prop. I have had boats break in odd ways, I have had boats that when I rested a drill bit against the hull, preparing to drill it, the drill busts through the gelcoat and through the hull in a spot where there was no structure at all, just gel coat. I've seen hulls that were crooked, wavy, had bubbles in the lamination, etc. While this stuff is less common in the expensive hulls, it still happens even with the good stuff.
Travis:
I told you what I would do with the hull, but you could also contact Lance. He goes by "Kingwrench" on, here, KBB, and JRCBD. He had a cat that did the same thing last year at the LOTO shootout. You may want to ask him what he did with his and how it worked out.Comment
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Just to clarify...
I don't think there's anything wrong with Travis sharing this on a forum, it's what he should do. That's one of the (many) great advantages we have. We can post issues we have with products and identify those which are common amongst a broad spectrum.
Travis please feel free to post this on KBB too, perhaps we can see if anyone there has had a similar issue.Comment
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I am glad that you did. I agree with the majority of what you said, and as you probably saw, I initially wasn't even going to contact Fightercat because of several reasons. But after thinking about it, and repairing it as you described, I changed my mind. Personally, I feel delamination is a completely separate issue. I had an Eliminator 25' catamaran with a blown 575 in it. When I bought the boat, it came with a 496 HO. That boat ran low 80's on a good day. With the new motor, close to 120mph. That boat started to delaminate. There was a short period of time that Eliminator caught the nick name "delaminator". There was a short period in time that they had hull failures do to issues beyond their control ie resin or cloth failures. They replaced the hull for liability reasons I am sure. Point is that the speed was irrelevant as was the engine size. They know what it had, and what was now in it.
Now conversely, had the damage occurred from a crash, then YOUR ABSOLUTELY 100% correct. I own it. But for the bottom to be peeling off, I think it's a building flaw that's sole and separate. Or if it was one of the Fiberglass ones that you have seen me dive for because it sank, LoL, then that too would be my problem being it is totally saturated with water.
Eitherway, I think you will agree, my MHZ won't be delaminating!!!!!!! Woo Woo!!!!! LMAO
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Fair enough comments, I didn't think a year was to long for obvious workmanship/build issues and I pretty standard when buying most things. If it has been run/abused past it's intended use there's no one to contact . If there ever was a place to rely on if it was a warranty issue that would be my place of purchase. Always so much more to say....a picture like that would look good on your website showing people what could likely happen if they buy that boat from you instead of the hpr. I couldn't help it. I got the impression they were a good quality fast boat from somewhere.Comment
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you got itComment
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I didn't say that would happen if they didn't purchase an HPR...any boat can have problems, HPR or otherwise. I JUST explained how my HPR broke apart, much worse than Travis' boat did. Look, stuff breaks if you want to go fast. It's just the way it is. There are people that will agree with that, and there are people that haven't been that fast... that's it. If you're not comfortable with it, 40-50mph is the place for you!
I welcome the picture on this forum, KBB, and anywhere else. I'm not sure what you expect from me and I'm positive that you misunderstand what I do in this hobby. If someone doesn't want to buy a hull from me, or anything else for that matter, I'm perfectly fine with that. If someone wants to know the positives and negatives of a product, I am always straight forward and honest, regardless of how it affects me. I'm not in the business of selling hulls. I build some of the finest and fastest boats in the world, and they are only what they are because of the work that I put into them. I only stocked FC hulls in the first place because I was asked to by a number of people who were unsure of the status of FC at that time, and wanted a source for FC hulls. It wasn't for my benefit. As much as I would love to spend thousands of dollars on stock that I have to store for a year, and make $10 on a hull that according to you I should replace any time someone breaks one, I think I will pass.
In regards to what I carry, or anyone else does for that matter, you vote with your dollars. People stock what you buy. If you want better quality, get your wallet out. If you want someone to provide you with a free hull and eat $300 a year later, prepare to pay for that upfront, because somebody has to.
I can't begin to comprehend how you could think a year warranty is reasonable on a 80+mph boat that you build and set up yourself, or how you can logically come to the conclusion that any sane business person would be willing to embark on such a money losing endeavor. If this is how things worked, you wouldn't be able to buy FC hulls, period. As far as obvious workmanship/build issues, there is no secret here. I have made it apparent time and time again that the FC carbon hulls are very thin, and absolutely need reinforcement if you want to go fast. I also tell people that if they're after speed a HPR or MHZ hull would be a better choice.
@Travis:
Speed is a factor here. When you consider that you're running somewhere around a scale 1000mph, you can't really compare it to a 120mph full size boat. While this may not have become visible after a crash, in all likelihood the damage was the result of a crash, it just didn't totally "let go" until now. I'm not suggesting that the construction wasn't poor, resin wasn't cheap, etc. I can pretty much guarantee that anything made in China is going to be made with cheap resin and materials. You couldn't make this boat for what they sell it for if you used the good stuff.Comment
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"When you consider that you're running somewhere around a scale 1000mph" LoL, when you put it like that!!!Comment
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I don't know what to say. You comments about these boats and what a person should expect from them is much different from you saying it's one of the best all around cats on the market on your website where you sell hulls. At more half the price of the mhz mystic carbon kevlar 114 and knowing the premium one pays for a top name brand I would have comfortably purchased one of these from your site believing I was getting one of the best hulls on the market period. I believed because you were carrying them they did represent a top quality item at a reasonable price. If I found a hull on ebay or from China for $100 I would expect the type of quality you now class your hulls with. My comments were based on something I did believe in. Marketing another of your hulls as one that set Saw records could leave a person to think it must be a very good hull to have been able to stand the trials, tuning and crashes that are inevitable before a hull has a chance to be run at that level of competition. I am not sure of what to make of your statement about not being in the business of selling hulls . I am more confused than anything at where this has gone. none of it makes sense! My confidence buying anything in this hobby is more akin to gambling, taking a crapshot with your money and hoping for the best. If it doesn't work out you just take the loss and move on. I felt I should respond here, just know it hasn't been a happy or easy thing to doComment
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Keep in mind that the hull you are talking about is a $169 hull in fiberglass, which I'm sure is what the $100 ebay hull you're referencing is made of. The CF Fantasm is more expensive because it's CF, not because it's magic. It is one of the best ALL-AROUND hull designs out there. Some cats are good in a straight line, but can't corner. Some cats corner well but aren't good for straight line speed. The Fantasm is a compromise of both and has good high speed potential without rolling or hooking in the corners. I would not say it's the best SAW cat, and I would not say it's the best oval cat. It is a compromise of both which makes it appealing to sport boaters.
First off, they're not MY hulls. I build boats, not hulls.
Secondly, it's quite a leap in logic to assume that because a hull was used to set a record that you just buy the hull and you're off to the SAW races. It takes a bit more than that to set a record. If I told you that I used a Lehner 2250 motor to run 120mph, would you assume that all you have to do is purchase a 2250 and your boat will go 120mph?
If I sold you a house and told you that Whitney Houston recorded most of her songs in the basement, would you expect to become a grammy winning recording artist when you bought it?
You're being a bit ridiculous. Chevy marketed their new Sonic by having a pro skateboarder drive it and complete a "kickflip" off of a ramp. Using your logic, one would assume that it must have been crashed and landed on the roof multiple times with no issues, so if you roll it and the roof caves in, you should expect a full refund.
Don't be mistaken. If you want to run the speeds Travis is trying to run, you are TOTALLY, COMPLETELY, 100% Gambling and hoping for the best. You can take an intelligent approach, but there are no guarantees when you get near 100mph. No amount of money spent will make a boat truly "bulletproof". If you are worried about your investment, run a reasonable speed.
It would be great if we could just toss a boat in the water, run SAW type speeds on an infinite timeline, and if anything broke it would be replaced free of charge.
Why is it that honesty is so frowned upon in this hobby? What do you want me to tell you? That you can buy cheap and have the best? There are plenty of people out there that will sell you a Chinese motor/esc/hull and tell you that it's the best thing since sliced bread. Go to Fine De***n if you want someone to blow smoke up your butt in order to turn a profit. I'm honest about what I do and don't sell, and the people who deal with me know that. The fighter cat hulls are great for sport boats. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with FC or TFL hulls. What I am saying is that buying a Chinese hull and expecting a refund after you ran it at speeds that are in the top 1% of the RC community for a year is ridiculous.
I just found a post of Travis' where he displayed a pic of his GPS in this boat, reading 96.8mph. Have you ever ran and crashed a boat at anywhere near that sort of speed? It took less speed than that to destroy my HPR bulletproof hull (believe it or not I didn't ask for a refund from HPR). I challenge you to run a boat at that speed level for a year and show me that it's in perfect shape at the end of the season. There is a reason that most people in this hobby aren't running that type of speed.
Travis has done an awesome job with this boat and he's running speeds that only maybe 4 or 5 people in the world have ran with this hull. As with a lot of people who chase speed in this hobby, he's learning as he runs faster and faster, and outgrowing a lot of the equipment that he has used to get to this point. It comes with the territory. Travis will probably end up being another one of the fastest guys out there, and perhaps take some records himself in the future, but he WILL leave some broken parts and boats in his wake...there's no way around it.Comment
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Well Keith, thanks for the optimistic words!!!! I don't know about records, but one thing you are spot on about for sure is that I went thru 3 Fantasms (fiberglass) before I finally got to that speed in the CF. More important, I do have to agree, the CF outlasted 3 of the fiberglass ones before it started failing.
As far as honesty goes, I agree, I prefer the hard truth over smoke n mirrors....... I think a truly successful person surrounds himself with not only those who agree, but most importantly with those that don't. We all need to be told we are full of *!***!***!***!** from time to time........ Thanks for pointing it out to me on this one.....LoLComment
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