I am curious FE/ GAS

[sjslhill]

In another thread I see where some of the top FE guys are now racing GAS

I expect that this is GAS and not Nitro?

Does Gas cost less than FE?

I have a Gas boat for about 10 years, at that time my engine just cost me $250.

What do they cost now?

What does a top Gas engine costs vs. a top Neu Motor for the large classes?

Did FE save the Gas classes?

Interesting stuff.

[Darin Jordan]

Steve,

Bonzai Sports sells brand new Zenoah 26cc Stock motors for $200.00 shipped if you catch them on sale...

A gas boat would definately be less expensive than a similiar sized FE... If you figure that the hull and hardware would be the same... then the difference in power alone would be huge...

Plus, with gas... you don't need as much support equipment... Fill it with gas... pull the starter chord, then go race for 30+ minutes...

I was looking into a Thunderboat, but I think I may start with a Gas Mono first...

[sjslhill]

Well, there ya have it.....Gas costs much less than FE. The only battery on board runs the RX.

So, what do FE boaters need to do?

Stick to lower Voltage, smaller motor classes.

OSH and OSM should move towards A123 or K2 and low cost BL or Burshed. Why A123, that's simple, they will last 1,000+ cycles on these classes. There is an 800 motor on Amazon that costs $31, it has removable brushes.

No, I don't care about selling batteries, that's what I am going to do because it makes the most sense and will cost less in the long run. I want to run longer and am going to run 4S2P in mine if not racing.

Just my 2 cents, feel free to post your opinion, maybe I am all wet on this.

james kennedy aka Doozie and I will soon start a thread to share what we are doing.

Working on a 2S2P pack for the kids electric Jeep today.

A123 is the way to go...it's clear to me.

all kinds of data here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=889212

Can A123 outrun LiPoly? No, that's not the point here. Fun and lower cost is.

[lonewolf]

I have a full mod 260 from bonzi I paid 970$ for eng pipe clutch mounts and water pump. I put it a cat hull and 1st pass was in the 40's trimmed the pipe some 50's now working on the 60's. All in all ive got about 1800 into my cat. To set up a f/e cat to the same standards it would cost about the same now add cells chargers ect..... How ever the boats are bigger and generally faster than the "norm" f/e boat and with that the safety factor goes up...

[longballlumber]

It's racing.... You wana go fast it's going to cost ya!!! Doesn't matter if it's powered by electrons, nitro methane, or pump fuel.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Well, I am hardly a top FE guy, but I did get deep into FE and am now going gas, so I'll take a stab at some answers for you.

In another thread I see where some of the top FE guys are now racing GAS

I expect that this is GAS and not Nitro?

Gas means gasoline. If a guy is talking about a nitro boat he will say nitro. Most outsiders call anything with fuel in it "gas".

Does Gas cost less than FE?

Absolutely. For instance, I have two of the exact same hull, a Delta Force Sniper (44 inch mono). One is FE, one is gas. The FE boat came to around $3,500 with packs. The gas version is around $1,400, and that includes a full race modded engine and tuned pipe. Plus an extra servo for the throttle.

I have a Gas boat for about 10 years, at that time my engine just cost me $250.

What do they cost now?

A box stock Zenoah 260 will run just a bit over $225. A full race modded Zenoah will be around $500 to $600. Add in $175 for a pipe system.

What does a top Gas engine costs vs. a top Neu Motor for the large classes?

Gas cost above. Neu 2230 runs about $700, but then you need a good ESC and that can be another $500 to $800 making the total most like $1,200 to $,1500 versus $750 for a race engine and pipe.

BTW, in race boats I have never seen a clutch used. Clutches seem to be used mostly in sport boats. They add weight, complication, and another potential failure point. Absolutely not needed in my opinion.

Did FE save the Gas classes?

Not sure what you mean here. All the gas boats are large and would be at least 8S and mostly 10S FE boats. I don't think either one has had much effect on the other.

I've gone to gas simply because there are loads of gas races around me and zero FE races. Best case I can do 1 or 2 FE races a year, and that is IF the NATS is near me (within 600 miles or so).

On the other hand I can go to at least one gas race per month plus 3 or 4 special races per year. With 3 boats (mono, cat, sport hydro) I can race 8 lasses per weekend and 4 round per race per boat. 32 heats of racing per weekend!!

[sjslhill]

Well....no

No, no, no, no it does not.....CMBC has all kinds of classes that are low costs. Do you think the NASCAR truck series costs as much as the Cup Series?


The problem is too many of wana go fast people killed the races with unlimited rule classes.

It's racing.... You wana go fast it's going to cost ya!!! Doesn't matter if it's powered by electrons, nitro methane, or pump fuel.

[longballlumber]

Do you think the NASCAR truck series costs as much as the Cup Series?

Thanks for making my point...

#1 you can't race a NASCAR Truck in the NASCAR (Sprint Cup) series, different sets of rules. Gotta compare "Trucks" to "Trucks"

#2 You’re not going to win races in the NASCAR truck series building your own chassis and your own motor in your single car garage in the upper peninsula of Michigan. You wana win races and go fast, you better be buying equipment as good as or better than the guys your racing.

You wana race, its going to cost you money... no if, ands, or buts about it.

It's up to the rules and restrictions that determins how much...

N2 is a great example Fiago 8S = $50.00 Hacker 8S = $200 (I am guessing) what about Neu... ????? . Which one do you think is "faster"?

[ghostofpf1]

Gas would be nice but most places around here would never consider allowing gas boats on the impoundments due to pollution issues.
Heck I have a hard enough time convincing them that electric boats pose no threat.

I would think the cost issue escalates more with larger boats than the smaller ones
Ghost

[sjslhill]

Yes I know

why sure, that's why we have too many cup classes in NAMBA and the IMPBA. You get it, you just don't see it.

Go ahead and race the $2k classes and we will miss you in a year or so after you have moved on to something else.

thanks,
Steve

Thanks for making my point...

#1 you can't race a NASCAR Truck in the NASCAR (Sprint Cup) series, different sets of rules. Gotta compare "Trucks" to "Trucks"

#2 You’re not going to win races in the NASCAR truck series building your own chassis and your own motor in your single car garage in the upper peninsula of Michigan. You wana win races and go fast, you better be buying equipment as good as or better than the guys your racing.

You wana race, its going to cost you money... no if, ands, or buts about it.

[sjslhill]

yes

Why sure, the tree huggers want you to live in Sod house and walk to work. Problem is, do you see them doing it?

Gas would be nice but most places around here would never consider allowing gas boats on the impoundments due to pollution issues.
Heck I have a hard enough time convincing them that electric boats pose no threat.

I would think the cost issue escalates more with larger boats than the smaller ones
Ghost

[longballlumber]

Don't be so quick to assume that I am or others for that matter are all spending 2K on boats. For the sake of discussion, I run N2 Hydro(with club limitations on the motor KV) and Limited Offshore (They have adopted the use of the SV or BJ motors)... I race in what I can afford, but I know going into a class what it's going to cost me to race and be fast!

Your Welcome
Mike

Go ahead and race the $2k classes and we will miss you in a year or so after you have moved on to something else.

thanks,
Steve

[sjslhill]

okay

I see, you agree and just want to jerk my chain.
I am glad that your club is running some good rules, wish I could join you.

Steve

Don't be so quick to assume that I am or others for that matter are all spending 2K on boats. For the sake of discussion, I run N2 (with club limitations on the motor KV) and Limited Offshore (They have adopted the use of the SV or BJ motors)... I race in what I can afford, but I know going into a class what it's going to cost me to race and be fast!

Your Welcome
Mike

[Darin Jordan]

There are plenty of levels of racing available in NAMBA, and definately so within each club... Our club, for example, races 1/10th Scale, Spec SV27 Mono, N2-Rigger, P-OPC Tunnel, and LSH, all with spec motor packages... CHEAP spec motor packages... and Lipos that last for SEASONS...

I'm not sure how many more classes one would need... Right there you have a Mono, a big Scale, a Rigger, an OPC Tunnel, and a Sport Hydro... All VERY affordable power systems... In fact... 1/10th, SV27, P-OPC, and LSH all use the SAME power system... Same battery allowances as well... SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE... and INEXPENSIVE...

And next season, it looks like we are going to be running a P-Rigger class that also uses a spec motor package (an "any available 12-cell/4S RTR motor package" kind of rule... BJ26, SV27, etc.)... The test boats are doing in excess of 50mph in heat racing trim... More on that later...

Throw into the mix N2-Mono and N2-Sport as "Open" classes and you have something for just about everyone...

In my opinion, the bottom line is that if you CAN'T afford to race a class.... DON'T! There are plenty of affordable ones to choose from.

[sjslhill]

Okay

Okay, what happened? I am confussed as to why we had races with 50-100 people and now we have 17.

Too many changes too fast?

thanks,
Steve

There are plenty of levels of racing available in NAMBA, and definately so within each club... Our club, for example, races 1/10th Scale, Spec SV27 Mono, N2-Rigger, P-OPC Tunnel, and LSH, all with spec motor packages... CHEAP spec motor packages... and Lipos that last for SEASONS...

I'm not sure how many more classes one would need... Right there you have a Mono, a big Scale, a Rigger, an OPC Tunnel, and a Sport Hydro... All VERY affordable power systems... In fact... 1/10th, SV27, P-OPC, and LSH all use the SAME power system... Same battery allowances as well... SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE... and INEXPENSIVE...

Throw into the mix N2-Mono and N2-Sport as "Open" classes and you have something for just about everyone...

In my opinion, the bottom line is that if you CAN'T afford to race a class.... DON'T! There are plenty of affordable ones to choose from.