Issues with a 380 brushless motor - Advice required!

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  • latinwindow
    Member
    • Feb 2008
    • 37

    #1

    Issues with a 380 brushless motor - Advice required!

    Hi guys,

    I have a technical question - hence I appeal to your knowledge in RC boating.

    I have a boat project currently working on. All the internal components are brand new and compatible. Last week I went for a "trial" down to the lake and the boat seemed to be doing fine. However, once in the water it ran for less than a couple of minutes before it stopped!

    First the throttle was sort of playing i.e. the prop in the boat was sort of going almost 'dead' - then spinning a little bit more suddenly - and then down to almost no movement.

    I changed the batteries in my remote control unit (is brand new by the way) and also thought it was the battery on the boat. So I put in a brand new fully charged battery too in the boat.

    The same thing happened again.
    I brought the boat to shore and opened it. Checked all the parts carefully - and everything was perfectly in place, perfectly cool temperature
    Prop, shaft, couplers, flex cable, ESC, wires, batteries, connections etc

    The only thing that was boiling hot was the 380 brushless motor! it was almost starting to 'melt' the engine mount I custom build for it.

    I have a copper cooling coil around my motor - though I custom made some water pickups at the bottom of the hull which were not wide enough to allow enough water to pass through!
    As a matter of fact I couldn't see any water coming out of the water outlet on the side of the boat (hence no water was passing through). I am working on this water intakes as we speak to allow plenty of water to pass through!

    However, I am a bit suspicious about the motor. I know they tend to get hot (of course) but the thing is - it got so hot in just a matter of 2 minutes or even less.
    Also - the fact that it basically "stop" working...

    Could it be a "defect" in the motor?
    or
    Could it be the motor has not "enough" torque? and hence is struggling lots to move the prop? It is a 380 brushless @ 2400KV ( i think) i can check on that one if needed.

    Something important: After the motor cooled down I took it off the boat and plugged it to the ESC and made it run for 30 secs. It was going fine (i.e. running without shutting down) and the heat didn't build up to be honest. I was holding it with my fingers.
    The thing is I did notice a "rattling" sound as it was spinning. Very subtle though... but it wasn't there when i first bought and tested the motor. I "think" it has coped some damage out of that overheating!

    I got so frustrated! I have spent the hours trying to build this boat up... and got so excited to see it in the water that day... until this happened!



    Could you please share some light as to what is happening? I truly value your input.

    Regards.
  • Eodman
    Fast Electric Addict!
    • Sep 2007
    • 1253

    #2
    Sounds like you may have fried the motor! Did you see the white smoke .... smell the motor does it smell? If you here rattling you must have melted something inside!

    What size prop were you using?

    When you get it sorted out & go back to the water -- run it for 2 minutes and bring it in to check the temperatures!

    A handheld infared temp gauge is your best friend when sorting out a new boat!
    Last edited by Eodman; 07-08-2008, 09:10 AM.
    We did it with a Bang!

    Cats Are Where It's At!

    Comment

    • Dr. Jet
      Fast Electric Addict!
      • Sep 2007
      • 1707

      #3
      Originally posted by latinwindow
      The thing is I did notice a "rattling" sound as it was spinning. Very subtle though... but it wasn't there when i first bought and tested the motor.
      Sounds like you may have thrown a magnet. They are often simply epoxied onto the rotor. Overheating the motor will weaken the glue.

      Try spinning the motor by hand as fast as you can. Do you feel some intermittant resistance along with that rattling?

      Try another motor.
      A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

      Comment

      • Steven Vaccaro
        Administrator
        • Apr 2007
        • 8718

        #4
        What boat is this in? Reason I ask is the Asian companies are putting 380 motors in 30" boats now! They are just to small for that.
        Steven Vaccaro

        Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

        Comment

        • latinwindow
          Member
          • Feb 2008
          • 37

          #5
          Hey guys - thank you so much for the reply!

          I think definitely the motor coped some damage!

          I did see the "white" smoke coming out as soon as I opened it up! I thought it was out of the "engine mount" almost melting down! But now that you mentioned it... it surely was the motor then.

          It is a 32" length hull! the prop is the stock standard one (not sure the exact size specs)

          It originally came with a 380 motor and I wanted to upgrade to 380 Brushless.

          The thing is ... I want some speed, yes of course, but I am happy to sacrifice speed and gain "time on the water" - reason why I thought 380 with low KV could do that for me...

          ALSO, the water pickups are on the bottom (at the back) of the hull... they don't sit behind the prop 'cause the prop is fully submerged under the hull.
          If I make the water pickups "wider" can the water still flow? or I need the pickup to sit behind the prop to get the "thrust" of the prop water flowing?

          Thanks guys for the tips...

          Hope to hear from you soon again.

          Comment

          • Steven Vaccaro
            Administrator
            • Apr 2007
            • 8718

            #6
            In that size boat you will need a much larger/heavier mass motor. I wouldnt use anything smaller than a Feigao 540L size and personally would run a 540 XL size.
            Steven Vaccaro

            Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

            Comment

            • latinwindow
              Member
              • Feb 2008
              • 37

              #7
              If not 380 - then 540 BUT how many KV?

              Steve,

              Thank you! Mate, your input has always been concise yet very helpful!

              I agree that the motor just got fried 'cause of the load! As a matter of fact I spun the prop out of the water fine but in the water - few secs - then stopped! (obviously water has a way higher load on the motor than air)

              If I go for a 540L or 540XL brushless what sort of specs (i.e. KV, turns) am I looking for?
              I saw the 540 Feigao Brushless in the Off Shore Elec. Webiste - but I may need help with the specs. A balance between nice torque and speed.

              This is a scale boat originally. So I am definitely not looking for SUPER HIGH END speed. The hull cannot take it and I really want some decent time in the water, rather than hyper fast speed and then the battery running out in a short time.

              I have a 7.2lipo battery with 4000mah - and all the components (i.e. ESC etc) to go with it...

              One important note to this... I cannot use a gearbox (no space) so the motor will be connected straight to the prop shaft!

              Thanks





              Originally posted by Steven Vaccaro
              In that size boat you will need a much larger/heavier mass motor. I wouldnt use anything smaller than a Feigao 540L size and personally would run a 540 XL size.

              Comment

              • Steven Vaccaro
                Administrator
                • Apr 2007
                • 8718

                #8
                I would run a Feigao 9xl with a 120 amp esc and a 4s lipo pack 4000mah 25c or better.
                Steven Vaccaro

                Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

                Comment

                • ED66677
                  Fast Electric Addict!
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 1300

                  #9
                  do you have a picture of the boat or a link to see what it's like?
                  Emmanuel
                  I'm french but I doubt I really am!
                  http://pagesperso-orange.fr/pleindetrucs/

                  Comment

                  • latinwindow
                    Member
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 37

                    #10
                    OK, here is the pic



                    and these are the dimensions:

                    Boat (LxWxH): 32" x 8.75" x 9"



                    Originally posted by ED66677
                    do you have a picture of the boat or a link to see what it's like?

                    Comment

                    • latinwindow
                      Member
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 37

                      #11
                      wow! Thanks Steve -
                      This new specs mean that I have to make a complete overhaul!
                      i.e. Motor, ESC, battery which basically puts aside everything I have in stock now and also doesnt come cheap.
                      What speed could this setup give me? Maybe is too fast for the boat's hull etc.




                      Originally posted by Steven Vaccaro
                      I would run a Feigao 9xl with a 120 amp esc and a 4s lipo pack 4000mah 25c or better.

                      Comment

                      • SJFE
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 4735

                        #12
                        I agree with Steven on setup. The only question marke will be the hull ability to handel the speed. I would set you will be looking @ around 30mph. Just take it easy the first run and watch how the hull behaves.

                        Comment

                        • latinwindow
                          Member
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 37

                          #13
                          Excellent!

                          I gotta say I dont doubt for a sec Steve's advice - his always been spot on! Its good to get the 'reassurance' from another member - specially when you know a substantial purchase ($$$) is coming ahead in new components!

                          My remote has an option to reduce total "throttle" and run the motor to 30% of its full speed - it will come in handy when testing the hull's capacity in a test run.

                          I am happy start looking for:

                          * Feigao 540XL 9 (BL)
                          * 120 AMP ESC
                          * 4s LIPO 4000mah 25c (at a minimum)

                          Thanks guys - out of all forums here is where the answers are!
                          No questions asked!!!

                          I will keep you guys posted.


                          QUESTION:
                          Does Off Shore Electronics post to Australia?

                          Cheers!



                          Originally posted by SJFE
                          I agree with Steven on setup. The only question marke will be the hull ability to handel the speed. I would set you will be looking @ around 30mph. Just take it easy the first run and watch how the hull behaves.

                          Comment

                          • Rex R
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 992

                            #14
                            while your 'remote' may have the ability to reduce the 'throttle' to 30%...the esc will not like running at 30% for any length of time(things get all hot and start releasing magic smoke).
                            last I heard ose can and does ship to your (upside down) corner of the world
                            Still waiting for my boat to come in.it came in

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