rumrunner forum

[ray schrauwen]

Miss you too Andy! At least we're still above ground

[Peter A]

Death threats over toy boats???? Are these people a result of in-breeding?

As passionate as we are about what we do and how much we love doing it...a step back to gain our perspective reminds us that they are just 'toy boats'! Those who take it so seriously as to threaten others wellbeing should get another hobby!...or life!
Thanks to all the many who help make this a great forum.

[jantagg]

I go there because I like the picture on the opening page.

[T.S.Davis]

Holy crap! An Andy Kunz and Jr Branham sighting in a single thread. You guys know there's a big race next summer right? Haha

It wasn't all moderation. People are nuts. The format was kind of new. People didn't know how to behave.

There was once a guy that promised an IRS audit. Think the FBI got involved in that one. I swear I was once told a story about a drive by shooting threat.

People are crazy. I want to believe we've all evolved a tick since then. The internet isn't nearly as anonemous as people thought it was. Acting like complet butthead is not the best plan.

[DPeterson]

The unfortunate thing going through this period and coming out of it is that not all lessons have been learned. Changes have not been made in either racing organization to prevent another blow up. History will repeat itself if allowed to.

Both organizations allow small club/groups to propose rule changes. Then with the usual small voter turnout the rule proposal has a very high probability of passing. The problem with this is that none of this takes into consideration National impact.

Case in point. Two years ago IMPBA out east was prepared to implement a P-Limited rule set. Some of us Midwest guy's found out accidently and put up resistence. If we would not have found out the rule proposal would have made it's way through the process. The rule proposal was unacceptable to the majority. The situation got nasty instead of being discussed rationally like it could have been.

Case in point. In NAMBA P-Limited classes became eligible for records based on the wishes of a few west coast guy's. This happened after a national discussion took place and decided they should not eligible.

Case in point. P-Limited Cat is now a NAMBA class. Again this was decided by a regional goup and not National. I am not against it just making a point that regional wants should not determined National needs.

Again - because voting turnout is so small any regional group can influence the rules. Even after such a rule may pass after a National vote it does not represent any associations membership. The only way representaion can happen is by geographically represented committee.

History can and will repeat itself. It almost did a couple of times within the last two years.

Doug

[D. Newland]

Doug- the P-Ltd records was my doing. Don't sling mud on the "west coast guys". Sling it my way. I wrote it, and District 2 submitted it, so there was not a solid consensus against it.

I wanted it because the previous LSH/LSO had records, and I wanted to see it continue. Even in hind-sight I feel I did the right thing. It's the most popular power parameter in FE and therefore is most relatable to a vast majority of FE boaters. Good tech and setups come from it.

Other than Jeorg's record run, it's the LSH records that stick in my mind. Pachmeyer and Crowe battling at Legg Lake and hitting 55 MPH with an SS-1 motor, Pach's being 3 years old and full of crud. That's the stuff I remember.

Let's see what they can do for records, even with all the hoopla that follows. Besides, we all are glued to the internet banter that ensues.

Lastly, it's really not that big of a deal. It's just a hobby.

[T.S.Davis]

We're way off on a tangent here but maybe the solution to Doug's issue is for each organization to put more effort into explaining how a rule makes it to a national vote.

Neither organization is a representative republic. Although, the executive board of NAMBA governs safety, organizational, and heat racing rules. Think that's how it works. So in that sense it is representative. Class rules are different. I think that was deliberate too. So that a concept could get tested and voted on by the people without the executive board interjecting it's will.


I'll try to paraphrase the NAMBA rule process......basically, a group of racers get together and try something out. At least one season for "proof of concept". If it's working and put boats on the water then it goes to the district for voting. This is where it gets weird and I think some of Doug's frustration materializes. Districts are small. In some districts, 75% the membership might be in one club. So any idea could make it out of the district and off to national without a single "no" vote. ECO anyone?

With P Limited there were multiple club in multiple regions running the same approximate rule set so it wasn't that much of a stretch. There are maybe 6 guys nationally that care about P limited saw records so have em' or don't doesn't matter. I know Dave and I discussed limited cat. Seemed like a no brainer to me. It's been more successful than my beloved Q sport this summer for our club.

I don't have a cure. Nor am I convinced we need one. Maybe in order for a vote to go national there needs to be a pro/con piece that goes with it. Not required necessarily. Just expected. It could also be that it's a NAMBA members responsibility to know how the process works so he can look at proposals accordingly. If you don't know what a rule change means, ask around.

Doug, another option is........to run for district director or IMPBA FE chair and try to rattle the cage from the inside. I'm just say'n..........

[Jeff]

P limited cat turned into 6 classes, just look at how long the nats are going to take Terry.

[DPeterson]

Relax Guy's.

I am not slinging mud, nor am I frustrated. I am actually in a very happy place right now.

I am a long term PAID member of both NAMBA and IMPBA. Therefore it is my RIGHT to give my opinion, my observance and in many cases provide some historical facts as I so choose.

Not unlike when I pay taxes - I expect a certain amount of return benefit and will express my opinion when I feel it necessary. Or when I purchase a steak dinner medium rare and it comes well done - I will then give the waitress my complaint and opinion. Or when I purchase $20.00 UL1 motors for $80.00 and find issues - I will express my displeasure and opinion. (4 weeks later still waiting a reply from Tower/Aquacraft) Or when I purchase a Lap Dance - well you get the picture.

Us guy's in the Midwest are looking to start P-limited Tugboat SAW's. I'll be submitting the rule proposal in the spring. I can easily round up 20 yes votes. More than enough.

I am not picking on anyone group. I am simply trying to show the flaws in the process.

At least no one threatened me bodily harm yet. I would say we have made some progress.

Doug

[Jeff]

Oh Doug, will they have horns to toot? Will they toot themselves or will we have to toot our own horn?

[RandyatBBY]

I have been biting my tong all day.

[ray schrauwen]

How's that feel Randy? lol... sorry, I'm a one liner kinda guy when I get the chance.

Rules?

Maybe in a knife fight...

[Doby]

Relax Guy's.

Or when I purchase a Lap Dance - well you get the picture.

You're complaining about a lap dance.....what...was she 350 lbs.....?????

[DPeterson]

Geez Randy - I didn't take you for a guy that would wear tong's let alone biting one. :)

Jeff - you will have to toot your own horn. Already controversy in a new class proposal.

[RandyatBBY]

how's that feel randy? Lol... Sorry, i'm a one liner kinda guy when i get the chance.

Rules?

Maybe in a knife fight...

frustrating!