Help with esc purchase

[Johnnysplits]

I have an aeromarine avenger pro that i'm repowering...i'm done with gas. So, the plan is to run twin 600 class heli outrunner motors (1970Kv) and a pair of 6s lipo's on each motor wired in parallel. I want to go with a seaking esc, but i'm not sure between the regular 180A or the 80A HV. Thanks!

[FastVee]

Avenger pro, 44" cat ?

Never seen one but I would suggest lower kv and the 180a esc if you are going max 6s. Is it going to be saw or just regular sport boating? about 1400kv for fast sport driving would be my suggestion. I never build saw boat so wont guess what to put in that.

Even 910kv motors on 6s would give you close to 50mph. (I use these in 58" v hull as a twin setup and get 45-50mph) and if I would build that kind of boat I most likely would use these motors on 180a esc and 6s.

But if you allready have the motors then 180 escs and small prop at first.

-Pate

[Johnnysplits]

Yeah, the motors have already been ordered. This is just for sport boating...not racing it. I've seen this boat with a pair of 1390Kv inrunners on 6s do mid 60's, so with the 1970Kv motors I have coming might get me close to the same or a touch more possibly.

[Doby]

To high of a KV for 6S...asking for trouble...also, you will need two ESC's....your original post makes it seem as though you are thinking of only one ESC.

[photohoward1]

Those Motors will blow apart on 6s. 21volts at 1970kv = 41,000 rpm+ It will never hold up. Motor or Controller. I run that Motor on 4s and a 447 or 450 and it does very well.

[Johnnysplits]

There are 2200Kv motors that run just fine on 6s...what makes you say these will blow apart?

[tlandauer]

From experience and knowledge perhaps. Yes, the first 5 sec. it won't blow up.

Also keep in mind that out runners do not have water cooling , although they can be run harder and hotter, nonetheless, 2200kv on 6s =

[tlandauer]

There are 2200Kv motors that run just fine on 6s...what makes you say these will blow apart?

A Neu motor such as the 1515 1y 2200kv has been known to run on 5s w/o problem. They have better bearings and are better motor, period.

[photohoward1]

There are 2200Kv motors that run just fine on 6s...what makes you say these will blow apart?

.....BOOM! My 25 yeast of electric experience tells me. Instead of just adding more voltage why don't you guys just work the set-ups you have?
40k rpm is hard on everything. The Motor,The drive line, The prop and the ESC. My boats are between 24k and 30k and they aren't slow.

[keithbradley]

There are 2200Kv motors that run just fine on 6s...what makes you say these will blow apart?

Who runs 2200kv outrunners on 6s? I don't know anyone who's running a 2200kv/6s outrunner setup, and they surely aren't doing it in an avenger (I hope). Perhaps you've seen people running inrunners at that RPM (totally different than outrunners) in hulls like the HPR 06 or MHZ mystic 84 or 114? Assuming that combo would do the same thing in an Avenger is like assuming that a F-1 motor will work well in a dump truck - they are completely different animals.

If you're running outrunners, RPM is not your friend. All you are doing is making your setup more inefficient, not to mention a higher probability of parts failure. You would be better off going with the 1390kv motors you mentioned and running larger props in that hull IMO. Also, keep in mind that as you increase kv on any setup, current draw will increase (utilizing the same prop). If you're running an avenger, you have plenty of room to run HV. If you really want a fast boat, I would be happy to help you choose a setup.

While it's not law, it's fair to make the generalization that the lower the pole count a motor has, the more efficient it will be at higher RPMs (given that all other things are the same). The higher the pole count, the more efficient it will be at lower RPMs. Running an outrunner at 40k+ is not ideal in my opinion. It can be done, but there are many more choices that would net better results.

[Johnnysplits]

The manufacturer states 8s max for this motor so I doubt 6s will kill it.

[Johnnysplits]

If you really want a fast boat, I would be happy to help you choose a setup

Yeah i've seen your stuff on youtube. If I had the funds to set the water on fire, you would be my go-to guy for a speed recipe. What i'm doing on this boat is purely experimental. I'm seeing quite a few boats with outrunners and thought i'd give them a try.

[NativePaul]

Outrunners are generally made for and used in Aeroplanes, where there is always a constant load on the prop, in boats the prop comes out of the water giving an unloaded condition and the motor RPMs will increase dramatically, it would not surprise me if it saw higher RPM on 6s in a boat than it sees on 8s in a plane.

The magnets and windings spin in outunners which inherently gives them a lower maximum safe RPM than inrunners in which only the magnets spin.

Outrunners will get next to no cooling in a boat whereas in planes they get good air cooling form forward motion or from prop blast even when prop hanging without forward motion.

I am a proponent of high RPM setups, but they require the use of small props and I suspect that a gas converted Aeromarine Avenger will be rather heavy and would prefer large props to push it, also I use carbon or kevlar wrapped inrunners for my high RPM setups not outrunners.

If you do decide to try them out rather than send them back use X438 props (the smallest 3/16" props available as far as I know), I was running 1780kv in my JAE rigger on 6s and pulling over 120A on a de-tongued X438, I would say de-tongue them but you will probably need the tongues to get it on the plane, just keep the runs short and check temps to start off with. I ended up cutting my x438 down to 34mm to get a decent runtime and a reasonable amp draw on 1780kv 6s 4500mAh. The motor I used was a Mega 22/30/2 an inrunner with a kevlar wrapped rotor, it handled it fine, but I have since dropped down to 1700kv with a 35mm de-tongued x438 for an increase in runtime, I now get 5 minutes.

[keithbradley]

Who's the manufacturer? It sounds like they don't know what they're selling.

I'm not sure that running outrunners at high RPM in a boat is experimental.

If you are lucky enough to know someone who has experience with this and choose to ignore it, that's your call. Sometimes it's more fun to find out for yourself, I get that. Going off of whoever says those motors are made for 8s is reckless and an abandonment of common sense in my opinion.

That's just my opinion. Nothing wrong with giving them a try if you like, that's how you learn. The 8s rating is total BS though and written by someone who doesn't understand how the motor works.

[tlandauer]

Before the OP posted the 8s rating, I thought he meant he saw in-runner 2200kv on 6s, that 's why I brought up the Neu motor ( 1515 1y) on 5s. It's a MM set up running a smallish 440 prop.
Anyway, I just want to clarify my statement.
I guess one can choose how one spends the money, I would personally have someone who is exceptionally experienced to build me a boat rather than seeing all my money go up in smoke. Having said that, I got to say that before I was even a newbie , I bought a modified MG with a Leopard 2200kv, thinking I can run 6s, it was the fastest and shortest of the run on my MG. Fortunately there was no smelly stuff, the ESC just quit. That was the extend of my experimental fund I spent, next I registered here and ate humble pie and started to learn. Still learning...