Rant

[Doby]

Rules only apply if you run at "sanctioned" events....even then, club rules can over rule NAMBA/IMPBA rules.

If you haven't tried it, you are missing out on a lot of FUN.

[T.S.Davis]

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All of these things will even out if you limit battery size and c rating.

Good plan. How are you planning to verify that? Manufacturers label says 40c so it must be legal. What do you do with the guy that printed his own label for "Joes pretty good cells"? Will you be testing the manufacturers claims on race day? Still sounding simple?

Having been involved in 95% of the writing of the NAMBA FE rules I can tell you first hand that it's not that simple. If the rule set gets too simple you end up with unenforcible rules. Then you're fun run'n. Don't get me wrong. Fun running is important too. People on the pond is what this hobby is about. When you start talking about actual racing "rules" in an effort to achieve parrity........... people lose their freak'n minds. Compromise is out of the question because each guy wants his vision of a particular class to be the only version. If they don't get their way they refuse to play. The introduction of the brushless motor was blasphemy in the day. Guys with brushes wanted to keep winning with them. The introduction of Lipo into the hobby turned some away from racing forever.

The nice thing about the NAMBA rules is that you really are free to invent anything that you think will put boats on the pond. Go out and show us/them/we/NAMBA the folly of the rule book. Nothing screams louder than a formula that is proving itself. If 4s/40c/4000mah classes will make for an explosion in participation by all means git er' done.

If you sift through the NAMBA book you'll find that the "P Limited Spec" class rules really aren't that complicated. You'll find people to race almost anywhere (okay how about many places?) in the country. The classes are not being dominated by "open" esc's and unlimited batteries as some will demand is the case. The fastest Limited Spec Sport I've ever seen runs a pure Aquacraft setup. Right down to the 4s/1p 4200mah batteries. The simple......er classes are out there.

The bigger issue IMO is getting guys to actually stick to an idea. Say a group of FE guys wants to do some racing. 2 guys want P mono, one guy owns a Revolt, another guy owns a Q Whiplash, the last guy really wants to race OPC so he goes out and buys one and builds it. A newbie goes to the store and buys a Spartan because the local hobby store guy told him there was a local club that raced electrics and this one is supposed to be super fast. Now you have 6 guys that are FE inclined and they can't field a heat of similar boats. Now throw in some die hard nitro guys that cling to their outdated technology. Think 2 riggers, an OPC, an 1/8 scale and a gas thunderboat.

.....now you're 11 rc boat hobbiest deep and you still can't field a single heat of any class from either rule book. Here in lies the frustration of the true racing nut jobs (like myself).

This is why our club picked a few staple classes that we are going to always run. If a guy walks into his local hobby store and buys an SV27r we have a place for him to race. In fact we have 3 classes he fits in that are staple classes we race at every club race. And he can win with just 4s1p too. Our base group of guys have taken it upon ourselves to ensure that those classes will run. We own the boats and will run the classes ourselves also. Then we have maniac sicko classes to feed our own personal needs for speed too. Burn em' if you got em' type classes. Eventually the new guys are ready to go crazy too. Everybody wins.

[Doug Smock]

After slogging thru the rules in the IMPBA I'm with SiberianHusky. Rather than spend 80 bucks in IMPBA and club dues, I'll stick with running with my buddies and to heck with rules hassles.

Eric,
Organized racing is not for everyone, but like Doby said, "if you haven't tried it, you are missing out on a lot of FUN".
As far as smoke goes. I don't remember the last time I saw any at a race. Do your homework, buy good equipment, and you'll be successful.
I'm not EVEN going to attempt to change anyone's perception of the rules.
Hi Terry, good post. Except for that outdated equipment thing.

[keithbradley]

Good post T.S.
I see the possible issues with different ways of doing things, but regardless of how it's done, I think ego is always the problem.

Does anyone ever do a race with a totally "open" catagory? I think people would be ok running against other types of boats just to get their feet wet...if they like the experience and want to race in a specific class (or perhaps start a new one), they could then work towards doing so. There are a lot of guys out there who already have boats, or prefer a certain type of boat, but what they have doesn't fit into any categories.

I ran at my first IMPBA records trial last year and after busting up my boat, found out that a clause in the rules that I didn't know about nullified my record. Still, I had a good time and enjoyed meeting the guys at the race. I "got my feet wet" and brought the word back to all the people I know who might be interested in such an event. Just being able to run gave me a taste of what an event is like, and once you get the first time under your belt it's easier to come back.

[T.S.Davis]

The "OPEN" thing turns into it's own weird class too.

If you put "open FE" on your flyers you'll get true "open" FE setups. They'll be nuts. Guys will build purpose built monsters just to push the upper limit of what's possibly. Think 10s2p outriggers pulling 200 amps. We've seen em. Now a guy shows up with a boat that doesn't quite fit in a class and decides to run open. So he's got a 8s Apparition and he's going to throw in against a 100 mph heat racer that can hang the pins at 70mph through the whole turn.

At fuel events, sometimes the "open" classes include FE boats but it's the same kind of thing. You're running against maybe a gas Thunderboat, a twin nitro rigger, and 10s2p mono that runs 75mph down the straights leaving a hole in the pond you could park a car in. Then at some events, because they're fuel guys and they want to win, they enact special rules that only apply to FE boats and not to gas or nitro. I'll not race in another set of heats like that.

We have a policy at our club gigs that if three of anything show up we'll put together some heats for them. Not quite an "open" thing though. We try try try to have something for everyone but there's only so much we can do. The trick is to check with the local yocals and see if there is a way to make your stuff fit in before hand instead of showing up with it bummed out. Some of us have more boats than brains. We might have one or two boats laying around that don't get raced because we know there aren't 3. But a new guy shows and just happens to have one too and now weees a' race'n. We have some guys that own and want to race 6s cats this summer. If nobody asked or talked about it at the meeting how would they ever know there were enough to make a heat?

Check with your local club. I promise you there is fun to be had on an oval. Even if you're racing is informal and is just 3 guys that want to hang out and act a fool. You will have fun running around some buoy together with or without NAMBA or IMPBA.

[T.S.Davis]

Except for that outdated equipment thing.

Come on Doug. When was the last time you heard "new nitro motor increases power by 50%!!!"? Ever? Maybe we could race some coal powered steam engines too. I hear there have been some major advancements in that technology. OH! Wood fuel pellets!

I should have mentoined too.................it's the people that keeps me in the hobby. There really are good people in this silly hobby of ours. If you don't get that from your club find another or start your own.

[keithbradley]

Maybe we could race some coal powered steam engines too. I hear there have been some major advancements in that technology.

Apparently you haven't seen "Back to the Future 3"!

I have to admit, while I really had "open mono", "open cat", etc. in mind when I typed that, the picture you painted is a race I want to see!lol
Seriously though, If I came to a race and could only enter in "open", and got my butt kicked, I would do one of two things:
1) Find a way to beat or compete with the fastest guys in the open class
2) Find a way to get a boat into one of the slower classes.

It's still the getting people there part that I think is valuable. Once someone went and experienced it, they could then decide if it's for them or not and go from there. There are a lot of people that just never go because they don't think they can fit in a class.

Understand that I am talking from a perspective of no experience...I realize that you know more about what goes on at these races and why things are the way they are. I'm not saying I know better, just having a conversation. I would expect to be informed more than be the informer, so I hope you take my posts in the spirit of which they are intended.

[Doug Smock]

Come on Doug. When was the last time you heard "new nitro motor increases power by 50%!!!"? Ever? Maybe we could race some coal powered steam engines too. I hear there have been some major advancements in that technology. OH! Wood fuel pellets!

I have to be careful Terry, I'm in a unique position and don't want anything twisted. You know.

[Doug Smock]

Keith you'd have a blast in the "Open" classes.
Being competitive isn't an issue with a FE Boat if you can set one up and know how to drive it (race).
I may get set on fire for this but here it goes. In my opinion, it is in our/your best interest to set up a FE boat for an Open class to closely match the speeds of those you are racing against. Racing is the key word. If you are lapping the field, it's not a race, and you won't make many friends.
Being FE you already have an advantage, keep it a drivers race.
Again, just my .02
Doug

[LuckyDuc]

When was the last time you heard "new nitro motor increases power by 50%!!!"?

You can get a 50% increase in power with a nitro motor... Just replace a CMB 45 with a CMB 101

For those of you looking for reasons to not race, here's another one. You may make more friends than you want at these events and have to deal with sending them holiday cards. What a PITA~!

BTW Terry. I couldn't find your address so here's your card buddy!

[keithbradley]

Keith you'd have a blast in the "Open" classes.
Being competitive isn't an issue with a FE Boat if you can set one up and know how to drive it (race).
I may get set on fire for this but here it goes. In my opinion, it is in our/your best interest to set up a FE boat for an Open class to closely match the speeds of those you are racing against. Racing is the key word. If you are lapping the field, it's not a race, and you won't make many friends.
Being FE you already have an advantage, keep it a drivers race.
Again, just my .02
Doug

So I guess there ARE open classes?

I agree with your outlook in regards to running close races. When I run with friends I typically pull voltage until things are even.

[Doug Smock]

So I guess there ARE open classes?

I agree with your outlook in regards to running close races. When I run with friends I typically pull voltage until things are even.

Check with your local clubs.
We have Open Mono, Hydro, and Offshore here in our Grand Prix series.

[Doby]

Just think, Buy yourself a SV-27 (or similar) and you can run in:
LSO
P-Limited
P-Mono
Open Mono

Wow, four classes to run in and not even close to the 800 bucks the original poster was worrying about.

Buy the way, he seems to be MIA in this conversation.

[lackabucks1]

No - not missing in action, just reading all the opinions. I do think the idea of an open class is missing the point. I'm not suggesting a development class either. The idea is that you can't write a rule for every situation, and excessive rules do turn people off. Check the fact that the US govt. regulations book that exceeds 12000 pages and nobody pays attention to it. I'm also disturbed by the suggestion that no matter what, you must legislate away all possible ways to cheat. Can't be done. If somebody is goofy enough to relabel a battery, they will also find another way to cheat. Battery manufacturers all cheat on their C ratings, but not by underrating them. I have an SV 27. Not stock, since the original speed control smoked from an oversized prop (I guess there is such a thing as old and stupid) so now I run a 90 amp air speed control with a cooling plate. Likewise, when the original motor gave up I replaced it with a $25 Turnigy because I'm cheap. It runs exactly even with the other SV 27 in our group and with a stock Miss Geico. If the Brits only need one page of rules (and they invented red tape), are they having less fun? I'm not suggesting that the go fast people should give up their toys. I loved it when in an open running the electrics smoked the gassers. What I am suggesting, is that there are ways to bring people into real racing that might have them move up at as they gain experience, or they might be happy to stay in the class they started with. If the hot shots want to run in this class, so be it. They'll probably win a lot of heats, because they are better drivers. And hopefully, the cheaters will end up on the rocks at the end of the pond. SV 27s are great boats, but the bottom line is if you limit battery size and nothing else, at the end of 6 laps I bet that most <30" monos would be running at about the same speed. The criteria is still that they have a a v hull and a pointy end. The same would hold true for cats and hydros (and a rigger is not a hydro).

[electric]

As a Namba member of just 2 years the memory is still fresh of my first encounter with the rule book. Which was, how many times will I need to comb though this thing to understand it. Of course once you do understand it is quite simple. Which, to me, means maybe the document "flow" or "layout might" add to the perceived difficulty? So that I am not just being critical (I am sure one or more of these guys has worked hard on it) maybe I will throw out a constuctive suggestion Possibly organize it by race class? Like.. Just a thought.. Possibly just a summary page in the document organized this way to help the newbies get the basics of each class easily which will probably be enough to get them started without to much trouble without changing the rule book at all.

Electric
Mono Boat
Class P-Mono
1. Batteries - 14.8volts 10000mah limit
2. Length - 34"
3. Motor - Whatever you would like
....
Then the some of the detailed rules at the bottom..
Class P-Limited Sport Hydro
1. Batteries - 14.8 volt 5000 mah limit
2. Length -
etc.....