HK Genesis vs R2 36" Catamaran

[twissted]

I'm new to this boating and I want to build my first catamaran I'm looking at the R2 36' twin drive or the Hk Genensis. I want to start with a cheap boat so that I learn from it. I'm good with fiberglass, and have some. I have no problems with making parts that would make for a better boat. My question is this. what boat hull shuold I start with. I like big! As I have big hands. I think that it would be better on lakes as well. I want to build and learn so that when I build a 57'' Fightercat I know what I'm doing. I would also like to talk about hardware as well. I build custom scale trucks and cars and have a lot of 1/5 parts laying round. I have 4 KB45-08XL 1600kv Brushless Inrunner motors one is in my first boat that I converted from gas to electric. I also use the 180 esc's. I have 2 as one is in for warrenty. I plan on using a pair of them with a pair of these motors. Running on 6s. From the reading I have done this is way to much motor for this kind of build, but I plan on running this same system in the 57'' fightercat. And that should be fine. In the fightecat I will step up the esc to 240. But I need to get past this first build first. So Genensis or the R2 36"???

[twissted]

Pics

Some pictures of what I'm talking about
This picture below shows how I want to do the lay out. My escs have 6 caps to each esc. They upgraded!



Any thoughts on the matter?

[znus]

I've built the r2 36" with twin 4074's, twin T180, 4s2p, and 4 mm driveline.

I think it's a bit wider than the Genesis, which means it'll catch wind better (worse!). It's pretty stable once dialed in. Very sensitive on weight placement imho. The hull is very light! Only had it up to 50 but I think I can get it to 60 before the summer is over

Two problems:

1. There's no room for more than 45-46 mm props so right now Im trying out PropShop 4217/3 and 4518/3. Also had X442s, PropShop 4213/4 and TJM 1215 45/3 on her. She can take a lot of prop.

2. The transom area for the stingers are not that big. I had to modify my cheap 4 mm stingers. Solution to that is of course to buy a better more suitable stinger. I just used what I had lying around.

(one of the pictures is an early version with two KB3674 2800kv on 3s2p)

[twissted]

so you glassed the inside to make stronger?
I like how you kept the wieght in the center much as possible.

[twissted]

Hey what you can try with the larger prop is what I have done with the 3 props I have. I use a file and have a small lead filled plastic hammer that has a brass end on the other end. I file the blade on the back side to the thickness that is needed and then I use the hammer and shape the ends over a round metal ball. I also use a shifter knob that is clear reson with sparkels in it for the larger props. I have done this with a brass 47mm and a 65mm stainless. Then I polish them with my dremmel.


If you try this it will make the blades smaller.

P.S. I make my own bullets as well.

[znus]

That prop looks really good! And cupping them takes away the lift and increases thrust. Win win! :)

Actually I think the layout you posted above is better. My layout gives me a lot of freedom in weight placement but at the same time it's top heavy. Or....that might be an exaggeration. The hull is very sleek and low. Low enough making it impossible to have a standard servo standing up. Getting the cowl over the T180's is a b*tch. And if you look closely at the pic of the twin 4074's you'll see I had to make a notch for the jacket nipple (right motor). Still, it's unnecessary top heavy. Weight in the sponsons will probably make it turn better. If I could do it again I'd put the lipos in the sponsons and the motors further rear, just as in your pic.

And I didn't glass the middle. It's just a lot of glue for the velcro :)

½" longer stingers and I'd be clear of the hull and could prop any way I want. I does look cool though when they are kinda' hidden

I'll record some passes this coming weekend and put it on YouTube for you! In the mean time - here's from the premier run! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGxAJqDLS1E

P.s If you haven't done twin motor setups before you have to calibrate your Tx throttle with the T180 esc's at the same time, with an y-cable. Otherwise they'll never start at the same time. Program them individually and then calibrate them as one pair.

[JIM MARCUM]

I've got another suggestion for you to consider. Based on your "big hands", I suggest an 44" Aeromarine Avenger Pro catamaran. http://www.aeromarinerc.com/index.ph...mart&Itemid=53

I put a single Leopard 5692, Castle Hydra ICE2 200HV in mine & it makes the motor look small. Lots of room for those "big hands" to work with.

No matter which hull you choose, I'd stick with a single motor build. Dual motor builds are - in my not so humble opinion - just not worth the extra effort or money. Not only is the cost & maintenance of everything in the driveline - from motor to prop - doubled, but your run time is cut in half when running the same number of LIPOs. i.e., if running a 10S2P, 5000mAh setup, and you get 6 minutes of run time with a single motor, you will only get about 2 1/2 minutes with identical twins.

If you prefer to drive - more than you like to build & maintain - a single motor/drive is the best route.

Welcome to FE boating!!! JIM

[znus]

Jim's suggestion is of course easier to build, can take a lot more beating (= better build quality, sturdier), probably faster and a helluva lot more expensive. The bare Aeromarine hull alone is $340 while my whole boat was $500 incl. two 4s 5000 mAh 20c lipos and one set of expensive PropShop props. Sure, dual setups are expensive but a big hull with a big motor aint peanuts either.

One thing though twissted, if you still decide to go with the r2 hull there's no way putting a single motor in the middle. There's just not enough room there and you're forced to do a dual setup in the sponsons. In that aspect the Genesis is better, as the cowl is shaped to allow a single motor in there. I also built the smaller 32,3" r2hobbies cat, which has a Genesis style cowl, with a single 4082 and it hauled!....until the rudder just came off, breaking away from the transom by the speed itself. Had it to 57 mph with a Prather 225 on it's third run and on the fourth the rudder incident happend. Wish I had a few more runs on it, to dial it in. Now it just sits in the hall of fame/shame.

Moral to the story - r2hobbies hulls are not designed for 60 mph. They are light, cheap and will require som reinforcing if you wanna go fast. The 36" r2 cat has wooden plates already glued into place inside of the transom though.

[lomdel]

...If you haven't done twin motor setups before you have to calibrate your Tx throttle with the T180 esc's at the same time, with an y-cable. Otherwise they'll never start at the same time. Program them individually and then calibrate them as one pair.

That's a bit of seriously good advice to anyone doing a twin!!! Read and heed, gents...

[Rocstar]

I did a rebuild on a R2 32 Godspeed hull. Remove the wood mounts and trays it came with. Had to add CF to strengthen it. It's an ok hull, very thin though imo.
2012-06-20_22-59-39_14.jpg

For the money you could get a Fight Cat Dayton hull (Genesis) and build a twin or a big single. Lots of room under the hatch. Here is a FC Dayton I am building right now.
2012-07-14_19-04-40_821.jpg

http://fightercatracing.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=19&category_id=13&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

[twissted]

I really like the fightercat hulls.

[twissted]

I have this y cable with the small adjusment screw in it.

[twissted]

Doese anyone use the KB45-08XL 1600kv Brushless Inrunner motors. I like them. They are big 45 mm dia and 77 mm long.

[LOVE6S]

Doese anyone use the KB45-08XL 1600kv Brushless Inrunner motors. I like them. They are big 45 mm dia and 77 mm long.

I have one I am gona try, the only thing I think I may have heard bad about them is they dont like to turn alot of RPM"S, bad bearings, but not 100% sure on this. oh and water jackets are not the easyest to find.

[twissted]

So I bought last friday a Kevlar 41" Zonda artr catamaran. I plan on running 2 Hk 180 esc's and 6s lipos. I hope that This makes me happy. I have no idea how long it takes to get a boat from www.horracing.com but I can tell you this I asked for a tracking number and have not seen one yet. They did send me a reciept of the sale though.