Genesis question

[lenny]

Hey thanks,
But I bought the boat from Member Rumdog and he salvaged the parts from his Drifter L, What happen to it.
The strut and rudder I think came from Fine Design, Its a old design that they had at one time.
Hear a link,http://www.finedesignrc.com/default.htm

And a video when Rumdog had it before me running nice to.

[tlandauer]

Lenny, i am just so fed up with my MG, the wah wah is so bad , especially with the Kintec off-set rudder. It doesn't do as much with the stock rudder but then the chine walk kicks in, I think I really need to true the riding pad, there is alot of concave at the bottom, creating terrble hooks. ( If that is what is called).
yeah, Rumdog knows what he is doing, I bought a DF26 from him, that was the best thing I did!
Anyway, enjoy your summer, all the best!

[Rocstar]

What do you guys think, would this be a better setup? What about prop in front of the rudder vs. behind an offset rudder?

2012-07-25_20-42-18_157.jpg

[Prop-a-Gator]

Hey Rocstar, Ben (FC) has tried that exact rudder bracket in his "Project Genesis II - the 10s SAW Build."
He reported positively in that thread, but mentioned later on FCR that a longer standoff is preferred. He didn't say why. I have heard you get more "leverage" for turning the further back the rudder is. (I don't have a lot of experience with boats. I just read too many forum threads.)

[tlandauer]

I want to apologize before hand: not in any means to hyjack the thread.
These Genesis, do they come as a bare hull or you up grade them? How is the stuffing tube? I remember reading some where all Chinese cheapo tube are very thin, is this the case? Don't want to deal with exchanging a tube. Any answer is greatly appreciated.

[Rocstar]

I want to apologize before hand: not in any means to hyjack the thread.
These Genesis, do they come as a bare hull or you up grade them? How is the stuffing tube? I remember reading some where all Chinese cheapo tube are very thin, is this the case? Don't want to deal with exchanging a tube. Any answer is greatly appreciated.

You can buy a Genesis in a bare hull or with with some gear installed. Some of our boats are the Fighter Cat Daytona hulls, same hull just pulled off the line before paint. I'm not sure about the stock hardware that comes with the Genesis, but I hear the same thing about upgrading it.

-Joel

[tlandauer]

Joel, thanks SO much!!!

[lenny]

I think that it would be to far to starboard were you have it in the picture,
This is what the measurement on mine are, Rudder off set from center to center of strut is 1"3/16, The off set from the transom mount is 3/8",
And from transom mount to back of rudder is 3"3/8, The back of the strut is 1" off of transom mount,
Not sure if any of the help anybody.
But the closer to the transom the better it turns on the Daytona,
And the smoother water hits the rudder first to, Not the prop wash.
The Daytona at FC comes bare, Not sure If you can get any custom work order on them.

What do you guys think, would this be a better setup? What about prop in front of the rudder vs. behind an offset rudder?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]81410[/ATTACH]

[HYDROJERRY]

good info there Lenny, im sure it will help..

[Rocstar]

Thanks guys, it's cool that we all can learn from our trial and errors. I'm going to experiment and come up with something to do away with the offset bracket and move the rudder closer to the transom. Sounds like a winter project.

What did happen to camarohrod?

[Rocstar]

I thought I was posting in a thread I started. Not trying to take over this one. Sorry

[tlandauer]

That is absolutely fab!!!

[HYDROJERRY]

Well i have niticed lots of giving room were the pushrod comes threw the hull, so i decided take a peice of antanna tube cut it about 1''1/2 long forced a peice of cooling tube over it same length and forced it in the hole in the transum were the pushrod comes threw so the pushrod cant bow when doing its thing, then i put the boot back on the end sticking out of the hull, i will try it out this weekend and see if this is the problem, and my rudder is back inline just to start with in my testing..

[1945dave]

What do you guys think, would this be a better setup? What about prop in front of the rudder vs. behind an offset rudder?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]81410[/ATTACH]

Guys, may I make a small comment about "Z" bends and pushrods. Try not to do a hard 90 degree type bend as indicated in your picture. Here is why. This allows much more spring in the flexing department. Two further apart 45 degree bends is much stronger and can accomplish the same thing. Also, given the choice you could have made that same exit hole and rudder position work with the pushrod pulling for a right hand turn rather than pushing. Not etched in stone generally our boats make more controlled right hand turns than those to the left and you are using the pushrod as a ,well, pushing rod. I would recommend a pulling rod given the choice.

Now regarding placing the rudder forward of the prop or behind the prop distance from the transom. Leverage does come into play but leverage is not always a plus. Exagerate the thought process if you will and put the rudder 12 inches back. It will take a lot of strength in the transom to hold that leverage from ripping the bracket off the back of the boat. As far as turning the boat, mounting the rudder flat against the transom mechanically offers only a little less turnng leverage than 4 inches back. No big deal over all. On the other hand extending the rudder bracket further back does offer a reduction in sensitivity to straight line control. Meaning you should be able to steer a straighter course without zig zagging down the straight. If there is one common item I notice in most of the videos of the Genesis drivers is that they are all over the place and can not seem to drive a nice controlled staight path with nice even "larger" turns at speed. Generally the reason for that is over controlling and too much sensitivity in rudder movement. Reduce your throw from the servo until all you have is about 30 degrees deflection off center. More than that and you will over control too easily.

Dave

[Rocstar]

Guys, may I make a small comment about "Z" bends and pushrods. Try not to do a hard 90 degree type bend as indicated in your picture. Here is why. This allows much more spring in the flexing department. Two further apart 45 degree bends is much stronger and can accomplish the same thing. Also, given the choice you could have made that same exit hole and rudder position work with the pushrod pulling for a right hand turn rather than pushing. Not etched in stone generally our boats make more controlled right hand turns than those to the left and you are using the pushrod as a ,well, pushing rod. I would recommend a pulling rod given the choice.

Now regarding placing the rudder forward of the prop or behind the prop distance from the transom. Leverage does come into play but leverage is not always a plus. Exagerate the thought process if you will and put the rudder 12 inches back. It will take a lot of strength in the transom to hold that leverage from ripping the bracket off the back of the boat. As far as turning the boat, mounting the rudder flat against the transom mechanically offers only a little less turnng leverage than 4 inches back. No big deal over all. On the other hand extending the rudder bracket further back does offer a reduction in sensitivity to straight line control. Meaning you should be able to steer a straighter course without zig zagging down the straight. If there is one common item I notice in most of the videos of the Genesis drivers is that they are all over the place and can not seem to drive a nice controlled staight path with nice even "larger" turns at speed. Generally the reason for that is over controlling and too much sensitivity in rudder movement. Reduce your throw from the servo until all you have is about 30 degrees deflection off center. More than that and you will over control too easily.

Dave

Thanks for the input Dave. Good stuff to take into consideration when I make some changes.
-Joel