44" Avenger Pro Build

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  • JIM MARCUM
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2011
    • 773

    #1

    44" Avenger Pro Build

    Got bitten by the racing bug at last years first Legg Lake SAWs. But I wanted to build a non SAW, regular T class Offshore race boat that is both strong and great handling. I settled on the Avenger Pro cat hull. The plan is to be finished in a week or so, ran, tested and setup for the NAMBA Nats at Legg Lake this June.

    This is the first post & pictures of my on-going build. You may have ran across across my rants on other threads about using seamless Stainless Steel stuffing tubes w/o teflon liners. Note: I walk the walk. But, this drive line build was a tough one. First, the .375 OD X .267 ID tubing had to be reduced at the strut end for a slide-in fit. Cuz I'm not a machinist or have access to a lathe, I chucked the tube in my trusty hand drill & GENTLY ground the tubing on the side of my bench grinder. Used lots of WD40 to keep it semi-smoothe until it almost fit into the strut. Did the final metal removal with a bench mounted flap wheel, and buffed on a rouge wheel as the final step.

    Bending the proper curve in the SS proved tougher than I expected, so I used a soft rubber mallet and a doormat to GENTLY bend the tubing starting about 4" from the strut end. Earlier, I had mounted the modified gas engine motor mount, cut the shaft slot in the hull, and firmly positioned the strut flat with the hull bottom to make alignment easier. Bend - check alignment - Bend - check alignment Bend - check alignment . Any one who has installed & aligned a stuffing tube/strut/motor realize this is a combination of science and art. Took awhile but it came out pretty cool

    Before I could fiberglass the stuffing tube to the inner deck, I needed a way to keep the shaft perfectly aligned with the motor shaft while the epoxy dried. My solution was to use a 1/4" thick piece of scrap ash plywood to support & hold the tube in place. First I sanded a V shape with a bottom taper with a 90 degree angle with the tube. Cuz there was a lot of adjustment room, I drilled a 3/8" tapered hole in the the plywood at roughly the same angle as the prop shaft. To make shaft/motor alignment easier, I drilled two small holes in the top side of the shaft mount before cutting the mount in half, and installed the lower half in the hull with Super Glue - followed with epoxy. While the lower half dried, I enlarged the holes the upper half to clear the SS hex screws. Once lower half setup, the top half was screwed to the lower half, screws removed, a few drops of CA added to firm up the threads, then both were screwed together.

    Before the final fiberglass/epoxy was layed to hold the stuffing tube in place, I applied a thin layer of Lithium grease to the shaft to make replacing it (if needed) easier. Finally, I used several layers of flexable fiber glass cloth and epoxy to hold the tube in place. From the pics, you can see finishing glassing the tube slot in the hull bottom is next. Gonna use epoxy thickened with glass beads for that. No cloth.

    The strut itself is a bit unusual - with a double edged razor sharp <> shape, and has a single 3/16" ID needle bearing at the prop end. Theory is it will slice through the water and have minimal driveline friction.

    The offset rudder has dual H2O pickups, and will most likely be moved closer to the strut after testing.

    Motor is a Leopard 5692 1090KV, and will be running 10S2P for testing. Have 730 & 1320 KV motors as alternates.

    ESCs are Castle HYDRA ICE-2 200HVs.

    More later.................. JIM


    Last edited by JIM MARCUM; 04-19-2012, 05:41 PM.
    JIM MARCUM: NAMBA 777; EX? SoCal FE Racers Club; D-19; Official 2012 NAMBA FE Nationals Rescue Diver; Purple Heart Viet Nam Vet; Professional SCUBA/HOOKA Diver, KELCO, 1973-1978; BBA 1978, Magna Cum Laude; MBA 1980 w/honors; Retired DOD GS1102-12 Contract Specialist
  • Bullwink
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 244

    #2
    I love to look of the aluminum stuffing tube. Can you heat aluminum to make it bend easier like brass?

    Comment

    • Old Sloppy
      Harry from Atlanta
      • Jul 2007
      • 200

      #3
      Jim,
      a Conquest (with an Avenger Pro hatch) has better aerodynamics (more down force with less wind drag too) .
      I own a Plett BM370HP/A1"s" powered "Conquest Pro" the SpeedMaster strut has a skeg (improves handling) 29 percent CG.
      I mounted the servo in the rail offset to the left side, this ballances the steering. my rudder is at 4" setback, I have been told that 2 1/2" is better.

      the motor you have seems like an 8s motor (30,000 rpm's)

      Harry
      Last edited by Old Sloppy; 04-21-2012, 07:19 PM.
      60" Expresscraft SuperCat
      (2) 2028 Castle motors 64.7 mph
      10s3p with x450/3 props
      15,000 mah 40c cells,

      Comment

      • Fluid
        Fast and Furious
        • Apr 2007
        • 8011

        #4
        I love to look of the aluminum stuffing tube. Can you heat aluminum to make it bend easier like brass?
        Uh, it's stainless steel.

        You may have ran across across my rants on other threads about using seamless Stainless Steel stuffing tubes w/o teflon liners. Note: I walk the walk....
        Jim, Harry's right. For T-Offshore use the 730 Kv motor. Swings a much bigger prop, better acceleration and less amp draw. Why "test" with just half power (5S)? It will tell you nothing about how the boat will eventually handle or where to put the strut, CG, etc. - just a waste of pack cycles. Run 10S2P with the 730 motor, try an x462 first.

        An FE Avenger Pro is not a bad race boat, one club member ran one for several years and wooped up on the gas guys. It was a bit flighty but with care it worked well. The Conquest is more popular, especially with gas as the lower weight of a gas boat made the Avenger hull really touchy. With heavy FE power it is much better.




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        Comment

        • JIM MARCUM
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2011
          • 773

          #5
          Jay & Harry, thanks for the tips. I will be running 10S2P, not 5S Jay. Was gonna try the 1090KV @ 40,330 RPM unloaded, figured it would get about 38,000 loaded. I thought you Offshore guys were running races in the mid 30K range, but I'll try the 730 KV Leopard and an X462 as Jay suggested. I have the following props to move up to: X465; X665; X470. I also have a 3 blade 2167 & would like your opinion on running that prop in T Offshore. Harry, does "left" side mean Port or Starboard? It's currently on the Starboard side, but I have to move the rudder closer to the propshaft anyway. Jay, do you agree with Harry on how far back the rudder should be? I have several various sized mounts.

          I'll finish up filling in the Stuffing Tube slot today, install two LIPO boxes, and start putting in the radio, servo & ESC. Hope to be in the water early next week. Been so windy here in San Diego lately the lake has been too choppy to run my SAW boats, but it should be just right for testing this big boy. By the way, I bought the Avenger Pro because of the high freeboard and great turning ability, not to mention how tough it is. Don't think aerodynamic profile will have much effect in Offshore races. SAW races - different story.

          On a side note: Jay, you've seen my 58" Segad at last years SAWs. I'm converting it into a twin 5692 and shaving the canopy for aerodynamics. Plan on running it in S & T Offshore classes at October's SAWs, and I need your advice on what KV & Props I should run to hit 100 MPH in S & 115 MPH in T. I know Boyd & Kevin will be upping thier current SAW records. (I hope Brian will be kind enough to lone me a couple of his beautiful props). And, is there that much of a performance between counter rotating props and twin lefties? I currently have CR sets of X465; X665; and X470, so I can go either way.

          Cuz I trust you guys I bought HAIYIN LIPOs. Just got in the first four HAIYIN 5000mAh 30-40C matched LIOPs this morning with more on the way. Wow, they look great. Huge wires. So pretty here's thier pics.


          God I LOVE this forum!!! Gotta work on the boat now - Bye Bye & thanks. JIM
          JIM MARCUM: NAMBA 777; EX? SoCal FE Racers Club; D-19; Official 2012 NAMBA FE Nationals Rescue Diver; Purple Heart Viet Nam Vet; Professional SCUBA/HOOKA Diver, KELCO, 1973-1978; BBA 1978, Magna Cum Laude; MBA 1980 w/honors; Retired DOD GS1102-12 Contract Specialist

          Comment

          • JIM MARCUM
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2011
            • 773

            #6
            JIM MARCUM


            Jay & Harry, thanks for the tips. I will be running 10S2P, not 5S Jay. Was gonna try the 1090KV @ 40,330 RPM unloaded, figured it would get about 38,000 loaded. I thought you Offshore guys were running races in the mid 30K range, but I'll try the 730 KV Leopard and an X462 as Jay suggested. I have the following props to move up to: X465; X665; X470. I also have a 3 blade 2167 & would like your opinion on running that prop in T Offshore. Harry, does "left" side mean Port or Starboard? It's currently on the Starboard side, but I have to move the rudder closer to the propshaft anyway. Jay, do you agree with Harry on how far back the rudder should be? I have several various sized mounts.

            I'll finish up filling in the Stuffing Tube slot today, install two LIPO boxes, and start putting in the radio, servo & ESC. Hope to be in the water early next week. Been so windy here in San Diego lately the lake has been too choppy to run my SAW boats, but it should be just right for testing this big boy. By the way, I bought the Avenger Pro because of the high freeboard and great turning ability, not to mention how tough it is. Don't think aerodynamic profile will have much effect in Offshore races. SAW races - different story.

            On a side note: Jay, you've seen my 58" Segad at last years SAWs. I'm converting it into a twin 5692 and shaving the canopy for aerodynamics. Plan on running it in S & T Offshore classes at October's SAWs, and I need your advice on what KV & Props I should run to hit 100 MPH in S & 115 MPH in T. I know Boyd & Kevin will be upping thier current SAW records. (I hope Brian will be kind enough to lone me a couple of his beautiful props). And, is there that much of a performance between counter rotating props and twin lefties? I currently have CR sets of X465; X665; and X470, so I can go either way.

            Cuz I trust you guys I bought HAIYIN LIPOs. Just got in the first four HAIYIN 5000mAh 30-40C matched LIOPs this morning with more on the way. Wow, they look great. Huge wires. So pretty here's thier pics.
            Attachment 74668

            God I LOVE this forum!!! Gotta work on the boat now - Bye Bye & thanks. JIM
            JIM MARCUM: NAMBA 777; EX? SoCal FE Racers Club; D-19; Official 2012 NAMBA FE Nationals Rescue Diver; Purple Heart Viet Nam Vet; Professional SCUBA/HOOKA Diver, KELCO, 1973-1978; BBA 1978, Magna Cum Laude; MBA 1980 w/honors; Retired DOD GS1102-12 Contract Specialist

            Comment

            • Fluid
              Fast and Furious
              • Apr 2007
              • 8011

              #7
              Jim, I was confused by what you stated in post #1:
              Motor is a Leopard 5692 1090KV, and will be running 5S2P for testing....
              This is not a P-boat, you don't run over 35,000 rpm if you want low temps and acceleration for offshore, that's SAW territory. You will want large diameter props, minimum 60mm. Rudder location depends on the application, I have had better luck with the rudder closer to the transom, but others have seen different results. CR is better for SAW as it cancels out prop walk.

              For SAW on 10S choose the 1090 Kv motor. All I know is singles, a prop with about 4.5" of pitch will get you to near 115 if the boat is trimmed correctly. An x670 cut down to 65mm or so may do it. Ditto a prop like an ABC 2717. A twin may be able to handle more prop.

              I never recommended the Haiyin cells......




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              Comment

              • JIM MARCUM
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2011
                • 773

                #8
                Thanks again Jay. I edited the LIOPs to 10S2P, and tried to make it clear that this is not a SAW build, it's just an ordinary T Offshore, single motor build. Sorry mentioning the Legg Lake SAWs in the first sentence threw people off on what this build is for. I'll apply your advice on a T class SAW boats when I add a second motor to my Segad. Several of the D19 guys are using HAIYIN LIPOS so I decided to give them a try. "Trusting" you, the D19 SoCal FE boat club guys and the other knowlegable OSE folks dosen't mean we always agree. I would never blame anyone if the HAYLINs are a big dud. Buying them was my choice, period. Seems like a lot of people (you?) are down on Turnigy Nano Tecs, which what most of my LIPOs are, so this is new territory for me. What LIPOs do you run Jay? JIM
                JIM MARCUM: NAMBA 777; EX? SoCal FE Racers Club; D-19; Official 2012 NAMBA FE Nationals Rescue Diver; Purple Heart Viet Nam Vet; Professional SCUBA/HOOKA Diver, KELCO, 1973-1978; BBA 1978, Magna Cum Laude; MBA 1980 w/honors; Retired DOD GS1102-12 Contract Specialist

                Comment

                • Fluid
                  Fast and Furious
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 8011

                  #9
                  A number of my club members run the Turnigy Nanos, and I have seen quite a few either puff, become unbalanceable, or go dead (and even burn up in the boat in a high amp draw application). I know that lots of folks like them and are willing to put up with the shortcomings, and for lower amp draw applications they are probably fine. I just don't trust them in my own high amp applications.

                  I am using either ThunderPower or Hyperion cells. The former have a high initial cost, but you can turn in used/abused packs for ~40% discount on new packs. So after the initial hit they are not too bad. The Hyperions are less costly and I like them for some of my race boats. I have had zero problems with these brands (over a dozen packs) even in SAW applications. They last a long time too. To each his own, I hope the Haylin packs work great for you!


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                  Comment

                  • JIM MARCUM
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2011
                    • 773

                    #10
                    Thanks Jay. I'm spreading my LIPO brands around. Already have (4) 5S2P HAYLIN packs; (4) 5S2P Nano Tecs ordered. Will buy some HYPERION G3 EX 5S when I can afford it. See you at the Nats. JIM
                    Last edited by JIM MARCUM; 04-20-2012, 05:34 PM.
                    JIM MARCUM: NAMBA 777; EX? SoCal FE Racers Club; D-19; Official 2012 NAMBA FE Nationals Rescue Diver; Purple Heart Viet Nam Vet; Professional SCUBA/HOOKA Diver, KELCO, 1973-1978; BBA 1978, Magna Cum Laude; MBA 1980 w/honors; Retired DOD GS1102-12 Contract Specialist

                    Comment

                    • Rob DeAngelis
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 269

                      #11
                      Lookin great Jim
                      Good luck at the NATS!!!
                      -Rob
                      Lakeside entertainer

                      Comment

                      • JIM MARCUM
                        Senior Member
                        • Jun 2011
                        • 773

                        #12
                        Thanks Rob. I'll need all the luck I can get. The Nats will be my first NAMBA Offshore race. I hope all the races I won at 1/10 scale offroad trucks & buggies in the brushed motor days will help with my FE boat learning curve.

                        I do know the Avenger Pro is gonna be able to run with the FE T Offshore big boys. It will be fast & with it's high freeboard & steped sides it will handle great. Just have to learn how to drive it in traffic and avoid JIM
                        JIM MARCUM: NAMBA 777; EX? SoCal FE Racers Club; D-19; Official 2012 NAMBA FE Nationals Rescue Diver; Purple Heart Viet Nam Vet; Professional SCUBA/HOOKA Diver, KELCO, 1973-1978; BBA 1978, Magna Cum Laude; MBA 1980 w/honors; Retired DOD GS1102-12 Contract Specialist

                        Comment

                        • RaceMechaniX
                          Fast Electric Addict!
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 2821

                          #13
                          Jim,

                          Just make sure you can run for 4 minutes. I race a conquest in T and can tell you it pulls pretty hard for a normal six lap heat race, but is difficult to make a fast heat 4 minutes long. I prop down for offshore to make the distance.

                          Tyler
                          Tyler Garrard
                          NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
                          T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

                          Comment

                          • JIM MARCUM
                            Senior Member
                            • Jun 2011
                            • 773

                            #14
                            Will do Tyler. Maybe I could attach a rope from your boat to mine. At least I would be in 2nd place. JIM
                            JIM MARCUM: NAMBA 777; EX? SoCal FE Racers Club; D-19; Official 2012 NAMBA FE Nationals Rescue Diver; Purple Heart Viet Nam Vet; Professional SCUBA/HOOKA Diver, KELCO, 1973-1978; BBA 1978, Magna Cum Laude; MBA 1980 w/honors; Retired DOD GS1102-12 Contract Specialist

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