New Electric Rigger

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  • Meniscus
    Refuse the box exists!
    • Jul 2008
    • 3225

    #16
    With the exception of the JAE, most of us setup so that the rear sponsons do not touch the water at speed. The same for the front sponsons. Instead, it rides on a cushion of air. With the JAE, it is a planing surface and does touch the water. To answer the question, anything touching the water can create drag. At higher speeds, above 70mph, aero-drag is also a concern.

    For your application and if you decide to work from the JAE plans, I would talk to those who build and run them successfully. The specific questions I would ask would be related to their total weight RTR. When you scale up to accommodate 8s batteries, pay special attention to the width of the sponsons. While they are fairly neutral while in flight, they do generate lift to offset the weight of the components. You may need to add an additional 1/8" and maybe even 1/4" to the sponson width to keep her from running too wet. However...

    Build it to the larger scale and try it. Then make adjustments as necessary such as swapping the sponsons after the fact. You may find that a simple change in COG (Center of Gravity) may have the desired results you are looking for. You may also find that you like to run the model on 6s after built. That rear ski on the JAE may in fact be very advantageous for running in rough conditions. I say try it! You never know unless you do. Then share your results and many of us can suggest some ways to get her running faster, more stable, or adjust to different water.

    To see a rigger setup for oval doing 80mph, checkout Steve Reesor's rigger here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnYXfOo637A He's running 10s2p, but it gives you a good idea of what you're in for if you've never operated a model at these speeds. Stability is the key. Without stability, you end up with a lot of pieces.
    IMPBA: 7-Time FE World Record Holder "Don't think outside the box. Rather, refuse to admit that the box exists in the first place!"

    MGM Controllers - Giant Power Lipos - ML Boatworks - Wholt's Wire Drives & Struts - Nano-Oil

    Comment

    • gerardobrandao
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2008
      • 164

      #17
      Originally posted by Meniscus
      With the exception of the JAE, most of us setup so that the rear sponsons do not touch the water at speed. The same for the front sponsons. Instead, it rides on a cushion of air. With the JAE, it is a planing surface and does touch the water. To answer the question, anything touching the water can create drag. At higher speeds, above 70mph, aero-drag is also a concern.

      For your application and if you decide to work from the JAE plans, I would talk to those who build and run them successfully. The specific questions I would ask would be related to their total weight RTR. When you scale up to accommodate 8s batteries, pay special attention to the width of the sponsons. While they are fairly neutral while in flight, they do generate lift to offset the weight of the components. You may need to add an additional 1/8" and maybe even 1/4" to the sponson width to keep her from running too wet. However...

      Build it to the larger scale and try it. Then make adjustments as necessary such as swapping the sponsons after the fact. You may find that a simple change in COG (Center of Gravity) may have the desired results you are looking for. You may also find that you like to run the model on 6s after built. That rear ski on the JAE may in fact be very advantageous for running in rough conditions. I say try it! You never know unless you do. Then share your results and many of us can suggest some ways to get her running faster, more stable, or adjust to different water.

      To see a rigger setup for oval doing 80mph, checkout Steve Reesor's rigger here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnYXfOo637A He's running 10s2p, but it gives you a good idea of what you're in for if you've never operated a model at these speeds. Stability is the key. Without stability, you end up with a lot of pieces.
      Hello Meniscus..


      Thank you for your valuable input.......

      For ovals, already made this..designed and build it.... http://youtu.be/tbaOG92hEtI?hd=1

      For Saw made this too...designed and built it...Broke "xxx" IMPBA SAW record http://youtu.be/t8pFxbIyxo8


      But would like to make a very good oval design..mine intention is too make a good boat and put all drawings in CAD and PDF available to anyone....we are lacking rigger plans in the 6S-8S-10S class...

      Would like to help the community the same way everyone in the community tried to help me :D

      Best Regards

      Comment

      • Meniscus
        Refuse the box exists!
        • Jul 2008
        • 3225

        #18
        Well then, most of my statements were rudimentary at best. Have you seen Jan and my collection of rigger manufacturers and designs? There are many more that we have found, but not mass produced. I think between the two of us, we keep a pretty good library. Otherwise, I'd talk to Ferrette. He has seem many of the larger models and designs come and go over the years, not to mention his successes in the nitro world. You can also drop me a PM and I can share some various designs via email.

        See here: http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...igger-websites
        IMPBA: 7-Time FE World Record Holder "Don't think outside the box. Rather, refuse to admit that the box exists in the first place!"

        MGM Controllers - Giant Power Lipos - ML Boatworks - Wholt's Wire Drives & Struts - Nano-Oil

        Comment

        • Ub Hauled
          Fast Electric Addict!
          • Aug 2007
          • 3031

          #19
          Hi Ben,
          Oi Gerardo! Long time no talk! Our list is on the "sticky" section on this forum, there are MANY riggers and MANY good ideas that you can feed off or at least keep busy reading for a while, hehehehe...
          :::::::::::::::. It's NEVER fast enough! .:::::::::::::::

          Comment

          • jcald2000
            Senior Member
            • May 2008
            • 774

            #20
            I am running a JAE inspired 8s2p 1527/1y rigger with JAE style sponsons and ski and JAE 60/ 40 weight with my own caebon fiber tub at 39".
            83 mph, 3.5 sec straights, abt. 13 sec lap times on 1/6 mile and 2 years experence with this boat and several mods.
            Now that the .90 nitro plans are available I would use those and widen the tub to fit keeping the 60/40 weight and ski.
            On the sponsons, make them wider. I was running 1.75" width at 6.5 degrees. The new ones are 2.75 width at 4 degrees and mine are adjustable.
            The advantage of the ski is you can run a lot more prop

            Comment

            • gerardobrandao
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2008
              • 164

              #21
              Originally posted by jcald2000
              I am running a JAE inspired 8s2p 1527/1y rigger with JAE style sponsons and ski and JAE 60/ 40 weight with my own caebon fiber tub at 39".
              83 mph, 3.5 sec straights, abt. 13 sec lap times on 1/6 mile and 2 years experence with this boat and several mods.
              Now that the .90 nitro plans are available I would use those and widen the tub to fit keeping the 60/40 weight and ski.
              On the sponsons, make them wider. I was running 1.75" width at 6.5 degrees. The new ones are 2.75 width at 4 degrees and mine are adjustable.
              The advantage of the ski is you can run a lot more prop
              Hello

              I´m going to run a similar setup...good to know that you are having success......Can you send me some pictures....Would be too much too ask?


              Best Regards

              Comment

              • gerardobrandao
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2008
                • 164

                #22
                JAE twin Rigger 8S2P

                Hello guys

                Boat went to mayden today, but not with the resulsts i expected..Ok maybe i want more then i can get, but the potential is very high..at least for me...

                Hull is made based on the 45 twin JAE plans, the attack angles from front sponsons and back ski are the same has the original..
                I just widened the contact area of the front sponsons to 2.1 inch wide and the back ski to 1.2 inch wide!
                This was made to "support" the increase of weight of the boat!
                Boat, RTR with 8S2P 5300mah lipos are 13.6 Lb, boat has 37 inch length..
                For the 60/40 weight (Frint/back)rule that i read on the other forums, i have 63/37.....
                Motor is a TP 5850 7D 1050KV with a octura 1657 prop...It should be a bullet.....But it isn´t..








                The problem is that the boat seems to run very "WET"...It doens't run loose, if you know what i mean....
                Do you think that i should increase the attack angle of the front sponsons?I´m having the original 3.75º for the front and 2º for the back,has per plans...
                From the data logging of the MGM 250 speed controller i´m having peaks of 200amps, and a mean of 160 amps.....The power is there, but it doesn´t "Fly" the way i expected....
                JAE in the videos seems "loose" from the water, mine seems kind of sticked....

                Waiting to make a bullet with your help guys...i know it´s the first time to the water, but i can reduce mine setup time with yours invaluable help!

                Best Regards to all of You, and Happy Thanksgiving..
                Last edited by gerardobrandao; 11-25-2012, 07:54 PM.

                Comment

                • don ferrette
                  Fast Electric Addict!
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 1093

                  #23
                  Just stumbled upon this thread and even found my name mentioned.

                  Gerardo your front sponsons are too narrow like Jim said, that's why it's running wet. At 13+ pounds you need more support up front, I'd go 2.75" wide on the fronts and set the angle of attack at 3.7 on the right and 3.5 on the left to start out.
                  - IMPBA Hall of Fame -
                  - IMPBA Hydro Technical Director -

                  Comment

                  • gerardobrandao
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 164

                    #24
                    Hello Don, how are you....Hope your fine

                    Thank you for your unvaluable input..i was expecting that answer, but didn´t want to change anything without having further opinions...
                    From your experience, what do you think of a RTR weight of an 8S2P being 13Lb..Is it a good overall weight or heavy!


                    Thank for your support...

                    Comment

                    • don ferrette
                      Fast Electric Addict!
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 1093

                      #25
                      Originally posted by gerardobrandao
                      Hello Don, how are you....Hope your fine

                      Thank you for your unvaluable input..i was expecting that answer, but didn´t want to change anything without having further opinions...
                      From your experience, what do you think of a RTR weight of an 8S2P being 13Lb..Is it a good overall weight or heavy!


                      Thank for your support...
                      Well the weight is what it is based on the components you've chosen so I'd work with what you have, widen the sponsons are give it a go again.
                      - IMPBA Hall of Fame -
                      - IMPBA Hydro Technical Director -

                      Comment

                      • RaceMechaniX
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 2821

                        #26
                        Hello Gerardo,

                        As mentioned sounds like you need a little more ride pad area and possibly angle too. Did you keep the same tub height relative to water? Was the prop hooking up well or was it blowing the tail? If yes, try rolling the edges to reduce lift which will help keep the back planted and the nose up and hopefully loose. It's pretty easy to grab some thin carbon or fiberglass sheet and make some new rides surfaces and just stick them on with servo tape or carpet tape.

                        Tyler
                        Tyler Garrard
                        NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
                        T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

                        Comment

                        • jcald2000
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2008
                          • 774

                          #27
                          Becareful going too much wider, I went to 2.75" at 4 degrees after running 1.75' at 6.5 degrees AOA and lost the boat. It was a kite at 18 lbs.
                          I would first change AOA with stick on shims as Tyler suggested. I used short door and window shims epoxyed to thin plywood and stuck on. added 1.75 degrees. LONG door shims add .8 degrees. Make a set of each and try them.
                          1600 series Octura have too much lift for a ski boat, either spoon or back cut to cut the lift down. You probally have a high rooster tail, you want a low one.
                          I had the best luck with a Prather 240 and 245 prop just balanced and sharpened Stainless steel.

                          Comment

                          • don ferrette
                            Fast Electric Addict!
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 1093

                            #28
                            Jim is right about the 1600 series props, too much lift at the higher rpms the FE's spin. You could also try a detongued Octura X455. I would still widen the sponsons to at least 2.5" and Tyler's idea of using double faced tape to stick on a flat fiberglass or carbon sheet just to test is a great idea. When you get the ride pad width correct you don't have to run a bunch of sponson AOA to free up the boat.
                            - IMPBA Hall of Fame -
                            - IMPBA Hydro Technical Director -

                            Comment

                            • RaceMechaniX
                              Fast Electric Addict!
                              • Sep 2007
                              • 2821

                              #29
                              Gerardo,

                              It is also hard to tell from the pics, but can you move the batteries back between the rear boom and motor? Can you also show a side view on the flat surface to get an idea of the attitude on the water? Also sounds like the MGM is working well

                              Tyler
                              Tyler Garrard
                              NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
                              T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

                              Comment

                              • photohoward1
                                Fast Electric Addict!
                                • Mar 2009
                                • 1610

                                #30
                                Did anyone ask his Balance Point? Should be just behind or in the middle of the Turn fin. That motor is so far back. I run a Gundert Rigger with a 9s2p and a 2215 x462. The Motor and the bats are as far forward as I can get them. 14# BTW.

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