If doing a build with no Teflon liners and 3/16?

[JPriami]

Had a friend on here tell me that I should just heat the tube up where you make your bends till it's red hot then cool with water. And it bends easy.

I just tried that with the 6mm tubes. But before I did I put a Teflon liner in the tube with a .150 cable then made my bends. Looks and feels pretty good.

[m4a1usr]

Had a friend on here tell me that I should just heat the tube up where you make your bends till it's red hot then cool with water.

What you described is called annealing. Well known process. Whats not known is without inner support the structure will deform as you modify its original shape. Thats very common. Just like Jay stated. When you change the tube shape you change its characteristics of dimensioning. Dont assume.

John

[Gimp]

What you described is called annealing. Well known process. Whats not known is without inner support the structure will deform as you modify its original shape. Thats very common. Just like Jay stated. When you change the tube shape you change its characteristics of dimensioning. Dont assume.

John

Wrong actually.

Heating until red hot then dipping in water is Quench Hardening. This yields high hardness but low toughness.
Annealing is heating to red hot, then slowly cooling (heat up in furnace and leave in furnace while it cools, process takes many hours). This softens the metal.
Normalizing is heating until red hot then letting air cool. This produces a higher hardness than annealing but not as high as quenching (but wont be as brittle).

[tiqueman]

A lot of folks, including myself use the method, whatever it may be called, heating a stuffing tube red hot and cooling under water. It bends SUPER easy... almost too easy. it certaily doesnt make it harder like Id thought it would. I only do it if I have to. mainly for twin builds. Other than that I just fill it w/ salt, sand, sugar, liner and flex.. whatever is readily available, and carefully bend it.

[m4a1usr]

Wrong actually.

Heating until red hot then dipping in water is Quench Hardening. This yields high hardness but low toughness.
Annealing is heating to red hot, then slowly cooling (heat up in furnace and leave in furnace while it cools, process takes many hours). This softens the metal.
Normalizing is heating until red hot then letting air cool. This produces a higher hardness than annealing but not as high as quenching (but wont be as brittle).

Sorry but you should have read the COMPLETE description as spelled out. He didnt say "Quenched" or immediately dip in a container of water. He said " Cooled with a water". If you were a welder you would know the difference. Quenching involves the immediate or as fast as possible reduction of the heated parts temperature. Thereby the heated part aligns structural strength due to alteration of the carbon molocule alignments in rapid formation.

Cooling with "whatever" media you prefer in a slow or non instantaneous period allows for non alignment of those carbon molocules. And with certain materials, such as brass, there is no critical time frame to make such happen. Theres a bunch of us who use this method. Doesnt matter if you think its wrong. Its not. Get over it.

John

[6BOOST]

Actually none of you are 100% accurate, different metals perform differently to different treatments. Aluminum for instance when heated and quenched is softer, not harder, just like brass. We could write a forum full of heat treating methods, but for the simple to follow information:

Heat stuffing tube till red, cool it in water = easier to bend stuffing tube.

No need for semantics.

6BOOST

[Gimp]

Sorry but you should have read the COMPLETE description as spelled out. He didnt say "Quenched" or immediately dip in a container of water. He said " Cooled with a water". If you were a welder you would know the difference. Quenching involves the immediate or as fast as possible reduction of the heated parts temperature. Thereby the heated part aligns structural strength due to alteration of the carbon molocule alignments in rapid formation.

Cooling with "whatever" media you prefer in a slow or non instantaneous period allows for non alignment of those carbon molocules. And with certain materials, such as brass, there is no critical time frame to make such happen. Theres a bunch of us who use this method. Doesnt matter if you think its wrong. Its not. Get over it.

John

I'm not saying your process was wrong. I've taken metallurgy classes so I do know a thing or two, you never mentioned cooling it slowly with the water. But you will still get localized hardening when you use water. Annealing doesn't deal with water at all and takes several HOURS to cool in a furnace.

Just saying. Not going to get in an argument over it.

[Gimp]

Aluminum for instance when heated and quenched is softer, not harder, just like brass.

I did not know that. I have only ever dealt with steels, I guess I just assumed it was the same.

[tiqueman]

Heat stuffing tube till red, cool it in water = easier to bend stuffing tube.

6BOOST

Sounds like a fortune cookie