Wiring and connector thoughts

[FastVee]

The deal is this: I got 2 new Gens ace 2S 5000mAh 50/100C hardcases for my touring car.


I have the Proboat Stiletto on it´s way here and cant afford new batteries just for boat use.(wont get any 2s packs from hk)

The batteries have 4mm bullet style connectors(female) and they cant be changed to wires easily.

I have high current 4mm connectors(Tekin) but no idea what sort of Amps they can handle. -I belive they are much better then banana connectors.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/1574_1592/products_id/32317/n/Tekin-4mm-High-Efficiency-Bullet-Connectors-3

So what I´m asking here is should I just use 12 gauge that snuggly fits in the connectors or 8 gauge or something and cut the exess strands off? -I guess that there is nothing gained using thicker wire then connectors?

I was thinking of changing the deans (that the stiletto has) with 5.5mm plugs and get + from one battery, -from another and jumper wire to remaining + and- of the batts.

I guess that the 4mm connectors are the bottleneck of this thing, but what to do if I want to use them? -the stiletto cant be that Amp hungry anyways, right?

any thoughts?


Pate

[m4a1usr]

Just my opinion and experience, but since your stuck with 4mm bullets on the batt connections the 8ga wire would not buy you much unless your having some wire length issues as well. 4mm bullets are only good to 80 amps continous (lots of manufacturers specs but not one I have seen are based on actual emperical data) so 12ga wire can and will be fine on that load. Problem is you might heat up the pack internal connections going to those 4mm female connectors if you are expecting to pull 100 amp or great loads out of the packs. So the question would be why put the packs in a situation where they are destined to fail or be the weak link? I cant tell you how aggressive the Stilleto setup is. Never owned one. Maybe someone will chime in.

John

[Alexgar]

60 amp esc shouldnt pull much more than that

[FastVee]

Yes, I understand that 4mm connectors are rated about 70-120A(banana connectors, no idea of 4mm high current/ bullet connectors) depending who do you ask, but deans are rated 70A if I remember correctly and the boat comes with deans anyway so this should be slight upgrade I think?

I would like to try the boat this summer, but my batteries for this year have been purchased allready.

Only batts I have are these and 5000mah 25C 6s packs.(that will some day be in stiletto when it is time to upgrade)

And good poit that 60A esc ! -I think that has 12awg wiring also?

[ron1950]

i use bats simular to yours and use the 4 mm connectors in my geigo.....if u use good solder and do a good job its no problem at all......

[FastVee]

Glad to hear that Ron! -nice avatar btw, pretty similar to mine, lol(32" horr cat flying high) -I allways use silver solder and turnigy silicone wiring(cheap and cheerful). -I´m not that bad at soldering eighter.

When I get the boat I will make the wires as short as possible, that should help also.

Cant wait to get the boat, told my friend that I ordered one and he had also just placed an order of one !

I see some racing action(or crash) coming soon to youtube!

[Gilbequick]

if u use good solder and do a good job its no problem at all......

I allways use silver solder and turnigy silicone wiring(cheap and cheerful).

I've always wondered why almost everyone uses silver solder for r/c purposes. It's probably because that's what is sold in most hobby stores. I'm not at all saying that the hobby store silver solders aren't decent solder, but IMO there are better choices out there. I started out using Deans silver solder, because that is what was sold at the hobby shop and it wasn't leaded.

After some research and A LOT of soldering later, I've been using either a 60/40 or 63/37 leaded, rosin core solder. Kester makes excellent solder and believe it or not, Radio Shack's solder is great and they carry both the 60/40 and 63/37 rosin core solders, in varying thicknesses. You do not want a thick solder, we're not plumbing here these are electronics. Either a .05 or a .032 sized solder is perfect. I personally prefer the .032, but use both depending on what I'm doing. Those thicknesses wet very fast and flow well.

Also I've noticed that there aren't many people who use flux. Flux is a must. What flux does is cleans and preps the wire to better accept the adhesion of the solder. Here's a link that can explain it way better than myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_%28metallurgy%29 . Forget the flux paste that The Shack or Lowes/HD sells, get some liquid flux. I use Kester 186 RMA flux. RMA stands for rosin mildly activated, and it is branded as a true no-clean flux. I love this stuff, it helps the solder wick right through the strands of the wire making tinning the ends a breeze.

Ohh yeah, if you solder a good bit, which most r/c'ers do (come on, you're not buying things pre-soldered are you?!?!), a good quality iron is a must. For years I used the cheaper bright orange Weller irons that you can get anywhere. They work so-so, but when I upgraded to an actual soldering station (I have the Weller wes50) the soldering experience was night and day. The iron heats up fast (within 30 seconds I'd say) and it retains it's selected temperature better. (With the cheaper irons the the temp would be good when I started but as soon as the iron was applied to the wire the heat would drop too much and I'd have to hold the iron on the wire for much longer than it should take. With a nice iron the heat stays more consistent and it takes less time to solder and there is much less risk of damaging something from too much heat spread. You don't have to spend a ton to get a decent iron, here's one for $80: http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../tcpr0950.html

Take care of your iron tips! The worst thing you can do is solder up a joint and then set the iron down or drop the iron back in the holder. Clean the tip EVERY TIME! you use it. Clean it with a damp sponge or brass wire ball: http://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Iron.../dp/B003UY3XU2 . I personally like the brass wire ball because the brass cleans the tip well and the tip temperature doesn't drop from putting it down on a wet sponge. Sponges work great, just don't get the sloppy wet, just damp enough to clean well.

Alright well that was a mouthful. Hopefully I helped someone out with something in their soldering edeavors. This is by no means a complete soldering how to, just a few helpful tips that have worked/working well for me.

[properchopper]

DSC02303.JPG

I've always wondered why almost everyone uses silver solder for r/c purposes. It's probably because that's what is sold in most hobby stores. I'm not at all saying that the hobby store silver solders aren't decent solder, but IMO there are better choices out there. I started out using Deans silver solder, because that is what was sold at the hobby shop and it wasn't leaded.

After some research and A LOT of soldering later, I've been using either a 60/40 or 63/37 leaded, rosin core solder. Kester makes excellent solder and believe it or not, Radio Shack's solder is great and they carry both the 60/40 and 63/37 rosin core solders, in varying thicknesses. You do not want a thick solder, we're not plumbing here these are electronics. Either a .05 or a .032 sized solder is perfect. I personally prefer the .032, but use both depending on what I'm doing. Those thicknesses wet very fast and flow well.

Also I've noticed that there aren't many people who use flux. Flux is a must. What flux does is cleans and preps the wire to better accept the adhesion of the solder. Here's a link that can explain it way better than myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_%28metallurgy%29 . Forget the flux paste that The Shack or Lowes/HD sells, get some liquid flux. I use Kester 186 RMA flux. RMA stands for rosin mildly activated, and it is branded as a true no-clean flux. I love this stuff, it helps the solder wick right through the strands of the wire making tinning the ends a breeze.

Ohh yeah, if you solder a good bit, which most r/c'ers do (come on, you're not buying things pre-soldered are you?!?!), a good quality iron is a must. For years I used the cheaper bright orange Weller irons that you can get anywhere. They work so-so, but when I upgraded to an actual soldering station (I have the Weller wes50) the soldering experience was night and day. The iron heats up fast (within 30 seconds I'd say) and it retains it's selected temperature better. (With the cheaper irons the the temp would be good when I started but as soon as the iron was applied to the wire the heat would drop too much and I'd have to hold the iron on the wire for much longer than it should take. With a nice iron the heat stays more consistent and it takes less time to solder and there is much less risk of damaging something from too much heat spread. You don't have to spend a ton to get a decent iron, here's one for $80: http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../tcpr0950.html

Take care of your iron tips! The worst thing you can do is solder up a joint and then set the iron down or drop the iron back in the holder. Clean the tip EVERY TIME! you use it. Clean it with a damp sponge or brass wire ball: http://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Iron.../dp/B003UY3XU2 . I personally like the brass wire ball because the brass cleans the tip well and the tip temperature doesn't drop from putting it down on a wet sponge. Sponges work great, just don't get the sloppy wet, just damp enough to clean well.

Alright well that was a mouthful. Hopefully I helped someone out with something in their soldering edeavors. This is by no means a complete soldering how to, just a few helpful tips that have worked/working well for me.

Dan, Thanks for the info; I do a lot of soldering and need to learn what's right or wrong. I do hit my tip with a wire wheel on my bench grinder before use and make sure the tip is tightly fastened to the iron for max heat transfer. I use a 40 W iron and it melts the thin solder quickly and flows well.I buy solder from a local elec supply store ; here's what I use. $ 3 for a tube - Novak gets $10 for theirs. I presumed that the 2% silver adds strength so that's the type I use. I use paste flux but have some liquid flux I bought for aluminum work ( batt tabs) - should I use that instead ?I have occasionally had 5.5 connectors de-solder but I don't know if I just exceeded the connector temp or if a different solder would prevent this. Thoughts ?

Thanks,

Tony

[Gilbequick]

If you've ever used a wire wheel on your iron tip then you've ruined it. You should never have to use any kind of wire wheel or anything on your tips, if you have to then you're not properly cleaning and tinning your tips during use. A bad tip won't heat properly and you could damage sensitive components from keeping heat on it for too long. When soldering sensitive things, a good rule is to not keep your iron on the material for more than 6 or 7 seconds.

I'm not sure why your connectors are desoldering, it could be a few things. It could be your joints aren't made up the best they could be, or it could be that you're really over doing your setup and pulling to much juice through there.

More solder is not better. Use just enough. Make sure everything is good and clean before you solder. Many people just use good old rubbing alcohol to clean things and and it works pretty good. I personally use denatured alcohol. You can use denatured alcohol to clean up a myriad of things, it's really handy to have around. Watch out though, if you rub to hard it'll take the paint right off the wall, ask me how I know!

Before you solder your connectors, rough up the mating surfaces a bit. For bullet connectors I like to use the Dremel with a bit that has a very small tip on it, something like this one http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessor...l.aspx?pid=108 , to put little groves on the inside. It gives the solder something more to bit onto. Then clean it all up with the alcohol/denatured alcohol and then Flux the surface then solder.

I don't know what kind of flux you're using but after you solder you should clean up the solder joints with with the alcohol/denatured alcohol to remove any possible residue.

Happy soldering!

Gilbequick, Thanks for the info; I do a lot of soldering and need to learn what's right or wrong. I do hit my tip with a wire wheel on my bench grinder before use and make sure the tip is tightly fastened to the iron for max heat transfer. I use a 40 W iron and it melts the thin solder quickly and flows well.I buy solder from a local elec supply store ; here's what I use. $ 3 for a tube - Novak gets $10 for theirs. I presumed that the 2% silver adds strength so that's the type I use. I use paste flux but have some liquid flux I bought for aluminum work ( batt tabs) - should I use that instead ?I have occasionally had 5.5 connectors de-solder but I don't know if I just exceeded the connector temp or if a different solder would prevent this. Thoughts ?

Thanks,

Tony

[m4a1usr]

I use paste flux but have some liquid flux I bought for aluminum work ( batt tabs) - should I use that instead ?

Definately do not use the zinc flux like you get in the battery tab solder kit. Its a tad corrossive. For the lead/tin solder we use for our wiring buy the paste in a tub. You can find the "Greenless paste flux" for pretty cheap. Its self cleaning and much less corrosive. All fluxes have a degree of some corrosive properties. Most contian zinc chloride. Even those products that state non corrosive are. They wouldnt work if they were not. If you are having and heat related issues on bullets do a couple simple things first. Make sure the wire you are going to be soldering the bullet to is perfectly clean or tinned prior to starting the job. Next if your bullets have the "hole" in the side to melt solder into put your solder tip there first to begin the process. I wish the bullet makers would not put those holes there. Its much easier to have a "well" or cup of molten solder to push the wire into, with that darn hole the solder just runs out. Most makers use 2! Even worse. Anyways, once you start the solder flowing at the "hole" make sure it looks well melted. Remove the heat and ensure you dont have a cold joint. Thats where the solder appears to turn a dull silver. A good joint will be a bit shinny. Next solder the wire at the top of the cup. That will result in a joint where the solder is garanteed to be good.

I dont want to mention any people by name but it never ceases to amaze me when I buy used speedos and motors off the various boards how many come to me with very poor solder joints. And of course its covered by heat shrink so you dont know untill it shows up on your bench. I wouldnt mind the products come to me with no heat shrink. That way I can look and see if the guy knew his stuff. Something as basic as that speaks volumes just at a glance. You wont buy a motor or speedo from me with a bad joint. That I can promise!

John

[Gilbequick]

Here are some really good videos on soldering. Check them out, they could help anyone out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCiCzeN6FWc&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcsEvJ9nmK4&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdxEO--Q2bs&feature=player_embedded

[properchopper]

Well I'm learning some good stuff. I normally use paste/tub flux. I like the idea of dremeling/roughening the connectors-will incorporate from now on. One thing I do is grind smooth any "burr-like" spots on the finished joints to eliminate hot spots. I do routinely wire brush the tip to remove oxidation and iron appears to work fine. Thanks for the info.