Why ESCs Fail....

[raptor347]

Ah, one big misnomer; when we talk about "Chinese" it's easy to lump the entire 1.3 billion people into a single descriptor. But, just like in the US, there are higher quality and lower quality products from a very diverse group of makers.

Very true. I run lots of Chinese stuff and the quality does range from very good to very bad (the same applies here or anywhere else). For example, I would argue that the Delta Force hulls are examples of some of the best composite work in the hobby (I'm a pretty fair judge of composite work). Layup wise, they are on par with the Euro hulls. The epoxy hulls from H&M, MHZ etc still have the edge on material quality.

That was the main reason I said "budget Chinese" cells. I will also say that a few well known name brand cells I've tested didn't live up to the ratings either (in fact some of the budget cells performed better).

[Fluid]

Sad cells aren't an issue for most applications. They never get anywhere near the continuous C rating.

Terry, re-read Brian's post #24. There are "C" ratings, and then there are "C" ratings. You may be safe pulling 100 amps thinking you have a 40C3300 mAh pack, but if it is actually a 20C pack......

Just as happened in the nickel cells days, LiPo suppliers can save themselves huge amounts of money simply by printing new labels for older or lower quality cells. There is a reason for low pricing on cheap packs. As I asked in my previous post, I have to wonder how many of the HV Hydras were run with low-end packs before or when they blew.



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[T.S.Davis]

Terry, re-read Brian's post #24. There are "C" ratings, and then there are "C" ratings. You may be safe pulling 100 amps thinking you have a 40C3300 mAh pack, but if it is actually a 20C pack......
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That's true. How's the average Joe supposed to know though? Not many have the equipment to verify a labels claim. You could check with a data logger but after the fire the data is hard to retrieve.

I buy based on reputation. It's all I have. I can't tell you if I'm getting quality or junk with absolute certainty. Hyperion or Thunderpower could sell me absolute garbage and I'd take it with a smile and a false sense of security.

Does the company you're buying from have a reputation it's trying to maintain or is it just selling batteries?

[NativePaul]

That's true. How's the average Joe supposed to know though? Not many have the equipment to verify a labels claim. You could check with a data logger but after the fire the data is hard to retrieve.

I guess that is why Castle say you need a minimum of 2p 8000mAh even for sport setups on their site when 1p 5000mAh good cells is enough for all but the hardest applications, they cant tell you not to buy MaxAmps batteries, so have to recommend a size that will work with just about any cells.

But if their blowing on plug in does it matter what battery is used? A ten year old 6C 1200mAh 3s pack should be enough to avoid ripple current when there is no load.

[Gary]

I learned about batteries real fast from Castle and was told to run the best to avoid problems. I always run the highest C rating I can find and use the new Thunder Power 65-130c batteries and they put out some incredible numbers. 18 volt batteries put out over 570amps at full tilt. Have run the HV 240 set up for 2 years and run the boats 2-4 times a week at a lake near work.

[sailr]

In a word...NO! That's marginally OK in a spec setup but I've even seen the Deans fail in that application if you even slightly over prop! When you go up to the bigger motors/controllers, you need to use good quality gold bullet connectors. I use 5.5mm's on everything up to 6S. Above that I go to 6 or 8mm.

Is it safe to use Dean's connectors with 2p setups. Here is the 4s2p adaptor I used with my UL-1 Spec Hydro boat. Would it be safe to use this same connector with higher 4s amp draw setups such as 1515 1y 2200kv or 1518 1.5d 2340kv?

Other end of connector has 6.5 bullets.

[detox]

Thanks Sailr. How are those 2s 5000mah Flightpower packs holding up?

[sailr]

The flightpowers have pretty much run their course. I have switched to Hyperions. MUCH better battery!

[Fluid]

That's true. How's the average Joe supposed to know though? Not many have the equipment to verify a labels claim....I buy based on reputation. It's all I have. I can't tell you if I'm getting quality or junk with absolute certainty....Does the company you're buying from have a reputation it's trying to maintain or is it just selling batteries?

You have to base your judgement on the experience of others. And not just anyone either. A dozen new boaters running RTR boats who don't push their equipment can get by with low output cells just fine, so they will tell all who will listen that their Turgion packs are the best and they have no need to spend more. But when these same guys bolt in hotter motors with bigger props they suddenly have ESC troubles and never think to blame their cheap packs.

I base my own LiPo buying on the experiences of a number of friends across the world who run race setups and who push their equipment hard. Right now I am using Hyperion packs almost exclusively based on the experiences of these guys. And now - based on my own experiences after running them for over a year. They don't get hot as long as the ICE controller tells me I'm not exceeding their C rating. My friends told me they are good cells and I have proven that to my satisfaction. If they suddenly start selling bad packs I'll find out soon enough because of higher running temps in proven setups and because I know that ESC problems are often caused by bad packs. That's how you know if you are getting junk packs.


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[T.S.Davis]

Flightpower does have some new stuff coming out that's supposed to be quality. There's some running in our club. Haven't raced against them yet.

[T.S.Davis]

We're on the same page Jay. I rely on others too. To a degree.

I race Hyperian. I have some new Thunderpower cells. Hope that wasn't a mistake.

I haven't lost a Castle in years. Maybe descent packs and great connectors is the reason. I turned off that ripple recording on the new Ice. Sounds like I should turn it back on.

[Fluid]

The ripple feature should be valuable, I'm just not sure how much value. Castle recommends not exceeding 10% in "extreme" use, but a few of my proven 4S2P/10,000 mAh setups pulling 180-190 amps will record occasional ripple spikes of 13% during a race heat. No ill effects on packs, motor or ICE after over 25 heats.


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[LuckyDuc]

The ripple feature should be valuable, I'm just not sure how much value. Castle recommends not exceeding 10% in "extreme" use, but a few of my proven 4S2P/10,000 mAh setups pulling 180-190 amps will record occasional ripple spikes of 13% during a race heat. No ill effects on packs, motor or ICE after over 25 heats.


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Can we see the ICE's data chart for that run? I'm curious how they display the data to the end user.

[T.S.Davis]

I was thinking that keeping an eye on the ripple might give me an indication that my cells were starting to fade.